Eileen:

Hello, and welcome to the Soul of a Leader podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. In today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen talk with Dr. L. Ray Matthews, the importance of vitamin D.

 

Alicia:

Hello, and welcome to the Soul of a Leader podcast. In today’s episode, we have Dr. Ray Matthews. He is celebrated as one of the top vitamin D experts in the world. A Mississippi native, Dr. Matthews earned a Bachelor of Arts in Chemistry, cum laude, at the University of Mississippi in 1985, followed by an MD in 1989. He completed his surgical residency training at Morehouse School of Medicine and a two-year surgical critical care fellowship at the Mayo Clinic College of Medicine in Rochester. Dr. Matthews has recently retired from his full-time faculty member position at Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta, in the department of surgery. A diplomat of the American Board of Surgery, Dr. Matthews earned certification in general surgery and surgical critical care, focusing his career on the study of vitamin D deficiency in surgical intensive care patients, where he has been investigating the positive effect of vitamin D therapy on critically ill patients. Welcome to Soul of a Leader, Dr. Matthews.

 

Eileen:

Welcome.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

 

Eileen:

Dr. Matthews, Alicia read your bio, but did we miss anything? There’s so much in there, and we are looking so forward to talking and probing more on this wonderful background.

 

Alicia:

Yes, a very extensive background. We are so happy to have you on the show, Dr. Matthews.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, thank you, but I’m not stuck on backgrounds. I like to do a lot of things, and so I introduce myself as just Ray Matthews. I don’t introduce myself with titles and all that.

 

Eileen:

Well, great. Well, we’re so glad to have that, and that’s part of living with your soul. Soul leadership is being humble.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, it is.

 

Eileen:

Yeah, so thank you, Dr. Matthews, or Ray. So, the question I have, the first one, is that what ignited you to focus on vitamin D, because I’d like to share some of my personal experiences on vitamin D and what it did. But what ignited you?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, I’ve always been a curious person. I remember when I was in medical school, our professor said, “If you eat three meals a day, you’ll be healthy.” However, you can’t eat three meals a day and be healthy because only 10% of vitamin D comes from your diet. 90% comes from the sun tracking your skin. So you can eat all the foods you want. You’re not going to get a lot of vitamin D from your food. So it’s not a true vitamin, it’s a hormone. So that’s what separates vitamin D or hormone D from the other vitamins.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

So, Dr. Timmins, just released an article that’s saying that vitamin D actually helps patients with metastatic or stage IV cancers, it slows the progression a little bit and these patients live longer. Actually, if you Google, Mayo Clinic put an article out years ago saying that breast cancer patients should take vitamin D life-long. So vitamin D, actually, I use it on a lot of cancer patients, too. A normal person that gets stage IV pancreatic cancer survives six months. So I’ve had people live a year, two years, three years after getting pancreatic cancer, and most of them are pain-free, still active.

 

Alicia:

So one of the things, when I’m listening to you talk about that is, from a leadership perspective, how do we educate the normal day-to-day people about doing this ahead of time to avoid, like you said, some of the critical parts of their health issues?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, first, I’ve tried to educate the healthcare professionals because doctors in medical school, when they learn something or something new comes out, it takes an average of 13 years before it becomes the standard of care, even if it’s 100% true. But doctors are very slow to change, and so my expression to use, “Well, the only person that likes change is a baby,” and so-

 

Eileen:

That’s a good one. I like that.

 

Alicia:

I like that.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

So you have to be patient with people and explain. The hardest course in medical school is biochemistry, and so you lose a lot of your classmates with that course alone during your freshman year. So most doctors pass biochem but they do not have a deep understanding of it. So being a chemistry major, I understand things that are chemical. So I view the body as a chemical factory. Everything in your body is a chemical reaction. So once you understand what goes on at the cellular level … Things happen on the cellular level before they get to the tissue or the organ level. So you’re too late. So you need to start figuring out what’s going on on the cellular level and understand all the pathways and how everything interacts at that level.

 

Eileen:

Dr. Matthews, do you think that there’s a connection with not only the cellular level but also how you engage from a mental level with your body, and how that can help heal you, along with your cellular level?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes. You have vitamin D receptors in every cell and tissue in your body, so that’s one of the few things. So remember, it’s a hormone, so you have 30,000 genes in the human body. vitamin D or hormone D controls 3,000 out of those 30,000 genes, or 10% of your DNA. So just imagine the things that you can do with hormone D or vitamin D when you understand what it does. So I’m kind of like a kid in a candy store. I can probably do more with vitamin D or hormone D than George Washington Carver did with the peanut-

 

Alicia:

Peanut.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

… because I understand [crosstalk 00:06:09]

 

Alicia:

I knew you were going to say that.

 

Eileen:

And it has to heal your mind, then, brain-

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

… it’s a part of brain health.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

So actually, I was awarded the first U.S. patent on treating concussions and traumatic brain injury with high-dose vitamin D. So I’ve had great success with that. We lowered our mortality rate for traumatic brain injury patients from 11%, 12%, down to 6.6%. And most of that 6.6% were people that decided to just withdraw care and not go through any prolonged process.

 

Alicia:

Something drives you to do this, right? And so I’m listening to you and I want to learn. It’s a lot. What is the leadership style that allows you to drive to find out the curiosity that you have, right?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

Because at some point, you have to take ownership and leadership to get this information put together so people really want to receive it or take on the accountability of taking their vitamin D. How do you define yourself of the leadership style to do this?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, you have to go back and look at a person’s history. That tells you a lot about a person. I had a great-grandmother that was a midwife and I had a grandmother that was a midwife, on both sides of my family. And they were both midwives in Sunflower County and delivered most of the babies over a 40-year period, each one of them.

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

My parents basically were well known. My mother, Missouri Matthews, had the first set of Siamese twins, in 1955, that were successfully separated. And it was a home birth delivery. I’m still trying to figure that out. So it was a vaginal delivery, no ultrasound, no epidural. A 26-year-old surgeon doctor with a stethoscope, and he was a classmate of my father’s, delivered those babies at home. I’m still trying to figure out how he did it, and how everybody survived.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

And my dad on this side had a group called the St. John’s Gospel Singers. And B.B. King was a member of that group from 1942 to 1946. So they practiced on my parents’ front porch. So actually, my parents and grandparents gave the world B.B. King. He originally wanted to be a gospel singer but he couldn’t make any money that way, so he changed over to blues. And he wanted the rest of the St. John’s Gospel Singers to go rogue with him. So my dad and the other five guys decided to stay in Indianola. I said, “Well, had that been me, I would have been gone. There wouldn’t have been a Ray Matthews.”

 

Eileen:

Oh, my gosh. What a story.

 

Alicia:

A story.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

When you have parents like that on both sides, what can you tell them? They don’t want to hear any excuses. So I had great parents, number one. My dad was a Baptist minister. My uncle was a Baptist minister. My cousin was a Baptist minister. So I came from a long line of Baptist ministers and people that were involved in healthcare. So my dad, at an early age, you were given chores; you didn’t do your chores, you don’t get your allowance. So then, I’m the youngest of 12 siblings, and it’s a year or two between all of them except myself. There’s a four-year gap period, so I call myself the gap baby. So being the youngest of 12, you get a chance to see all the personality disorders in the world, and then note to yourself, don’t do that.

 

Alicia:

Note to self, right.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes. So I was able to live vicariously through my older siblings and learned a lot of things not to do, just by watching them. And so that’s where I think my leadership capabilities came from, through family lineage, history; my parents were both hard workers. They had a passion for reading. So I think I got both characteristics of both parents and grandparents.

 

Alicia:

I would agree with you on that, but I want to just say one thing, how did you skip being a pastor? You’re just like, “Not going that road right now.”

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

[inaudible 00:10:04] I told my parents when I was a young age, I said, “I’m not going to be a minister,” because everybody used to ask me that question. I remember the old ladies used to grab my jowls and say, “You’re going to be a minister like your dad.” I was like, “No way. I’m going to be a doctor so when people start acting up I can put them to sleep, give them something to calm them down. I can do more than pray for them.”

 

Alicia:

Oh, wow.

 

Eileen:

Oh, my gosh, that is so wonderful.

 

Alicia:

I love it.

 

Eileen:

It’s a wonderful story, and as you tell that story, I see … You said midwives, they’re bringing life into the world. You have Baptist ministers who are bringing energy and life of Christ in the world [crosstalk 00:10:45]

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

And then you’re a doctor, and you’re doing the same here, and you’re also saving lives. And you are preaching on vitamin D on how to extend life. I’m just awed.

 

Alicia:

I love your analogy on that Dr. Eileen. I love it.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Thank you.

 

Eileen:

It just all comes together. It’s just all coming together perfectly. But wow, yeah, I was going to ask the question, Alicia, how he didn’t become a minister.

 

Alicia:

I couldn’t help it. I had to ask that.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

I have great respect for ministers. That’s a tough job.

 

Eileen:

Very tough job, tough job, every day. So that’s a great story. My heart is just pumping from it.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. So one of the things I was thinking about, too, while you were talking, is we have values, and we use a lot of that with clients, as I used it on a client this week, the other day. So what are some of your top values, your top four, that you think of that really keeps you grounded, keeps you focused on achieving some of those goals that you have with vitamin D? What are your top four values?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, I think the top value should be humility. Humility keeps you humble, it keeps you working hard. You never believe you’re all that. When my mom was living, before she passed, when I’d go home after I finished medical school, she would say, “Boy, take the garbage out.” So it was never, “Doctor,” or nothing, no, “Dr. This or That.” It was like, “Boy, take the garbage out. Do this.” My parents were great at keeping you moving along in each phase or stage of life. They kept you humble, so they were humble people. They never bragged, and they worked hard. So I think humility should be number one. A strong faith in God, number two. A great work ethic, number three. And then just honesty, number four. So those four things will take you a long way in life.

 

Eileen:

It will, too. And what I liked about humility is I have two brothers, two sisters. And if you had 12 in your family, they’ll keep you humble.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Oh yes, they will.

 

Eileen:

Oh, no matter where you go or what you do. They still remember you when, right, and they bring it up. So humility, strong faith in God, work ethic, and honesty. Thank you so much for sharing.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). [crosstalk 00:13:08] You’re welcome.

 

Eileen:

And so with that strong faith in God, is there any time in your life where you as a leader lived by these values and were challenged, but still succeeded?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, in everybody’s life, you’re going to have peaks and valleys, so life is not an even keel. So my motto’s always been, try to stay on an even keel, so don’t get too high in life when things are going great, and then don’t get too low when things are going bad. So I’ve tried all my life just to stay at a normal keel, and I think God gives you the qualities that you needed before you’re even put here. So being a trauma surgeon, you have to think fast on your feet, you have to stay calm, and you have to have a steady hand. So you have to be able to think quick under duress. So I think I was born and gifted with those characteristics even before I got here, so I’m a pretty calm person. So even though I’m the youngest of all my siblings, I’m about the calmest, and usually dealing with most of the thinking in emergencies on how to make things better.

 

Alicia:

Now, do they look to you to say, “Ray,” or whatever they call you at home, “Can you answer this for us because we’re having problems?” Do they really call on you, or do they just don’t say anything, expect you to just step up and take charge? How is it with your siblings?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Oh, yes. Anybody would tell you, as a physician, they think you’re a money bank. That’s number one.

 

Alicia:

Number one, right, yeah.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Number two, they were calling you for medical advice, so I used to call it the M&Ms; they call you for money and medical advice all the time.

 

Eileen:

I like that.

 

Alicia:

I like that they get this free benefit: “You’re the youngest brother, we can call you for money. And by the way, we get to call you for any medical advice.”

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yeah, entitlement [crosstalk 00:15:04]

 

Eileen:

So Alicia and I, so you have the M&Ms for money and medical advice, we usually coach our people on the four Ms, which is making sure you don’t say anything that the media, your maker, and your mother … I think that was it, there was those three that we talked about. And you don’t want to say anything that would embarrass any of those. So you have the money and medical, and we have those, to make sure that people don’t talk or email and say things.

 

Alicia:

[crosstalk 00:15:39] Because people are quick to put stuff on social media, and you got to remember, would my mother like this, or disprove that? Would my maker be like, “You may want to think about that”? And then you got to think about it, why do you want to push that on the email so quick? And you got to think about, is it going to help somebody? What’s the impact of that and the delivery? And we have a lot of people that like to bully via the texts, the emails, social media now. And so with us being in HR, too, and consulting with people, we have to teach people how to not do those things, because it’s very important. So I like your M&M, too.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

I had additional things to worry about, too. So not only was my father a Baptist minister, he was an elementary school principal. And we live right across the street from the high school, so my dad knew everybody either through the church or the school, so you couldn’t tell him the report card’s going to be late or they’re not coming. He was the principal, so he knew everything. You did anything, your parents got called direct, [inaudible 00:16:41] teacher’s meeting. And then my mom basically knew everybody at the school. Our house was the house on the block.

 

Alicia:

Oh, wow. So you couldn’t even do anything bad.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

No. It would be at home before I made it there.

 

Eileen:

You had cameras; camera one and camera two are both their eyes, right?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

[crosstalk 00:17:03] both cameras.

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Eileen:

Way before there were remote cameras, those were the eyes, so in the end, they protected you. They guided you correctly, so that’s wonderful.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, I learned in the first grade, you watch what you say, you watch what you do, and watch how you carry yourself.

 

Alicia:

Yeah, and that’s interesting that you said that you learned that in first grade. I think in our society now, we’re getting away or have gotten away from teaching our kids in first grade or second grade just how to handle yourself. And with all of the stuff that they’re exposed to now, I just find it to be so difficult for people or teachers to enforce that. So what do you think are some tips to really share what just teaching our young generation the importance of representing themselves? And I like another statement you said, you enjoy reading, or when you were younger, you enjoyed reading. And I really teach or enforce my nieces and nephews to read because my parents told me to. Now, I got it later in life, so I have to be honest. But now, I see why they were doing that when I was younger and a teenager. So what are some tips that you would share to really pull that together for our young people to remember how they need to carry themselves?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Okay, first of all, this is a different generation. And like you said, Dr. Straughter, they have all the social media things that we didn’t have. We had one dial phone when we were growing up. And everything is around the world in less than 24 hours; smart phones, which has all the information in the universe on their smartphone. They don’t have to go to the libraries and view the encyclopedias and things like we did. So it’s a different world now. So you have to modify how you deal with the younger generation. Actually, I taught residents, nursing students and medical students, and so they’re a little different.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

But I found out, it’s kind of like my parents did with us. They kept repeating the same thing over and over and over. And so a lot of times, when I got through with my 36-hour calls at work, I would be tired and didn’t want to talk anymore. So when I repeat stuff over and over, eventually, it sunk in. Then I would tell them, “Do what Dr. Matthews would do.” So they started, after a period of time, just like, “Okay, how would Dr. Matthews solve this problem?”

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

So it’s a long step term process. It’s not easy. It’s going to take a lot of time because they’re going to disappoint you. You have to have a lot of patience with them. So I trained my residents, when they did something wrong, to come to me and let me know. I said, “You’ve got to let me know so I can fix the problem right away, than finding out later.” So when they did something wrong, it got to the point, they would come to my office, knock on my door, and say, “Dr. Matthews, I think you ought to sit down on this one.” I was like, “What is it?”

 

Alicia:

Right, like, “Get ready for the kill on this one,” right? You got to have a different technique, like you said, in speaking with them and learning their habits or meeting them where they are. So we do a lot of consulting, so sometimes it’s with professionals, and then sometimes just souls that are underrepresented. So we donate that time, right?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

So one of the things we find out, too, is you’re right, we have to say things over and over again. And I must admit, sometimes I get frustrated with that. So I’m working on it, Dr. Matthews. I’m getting there. Because you have to meet people where they are, and then you get to learn that they have habits that they oftentimes don’t want to admit, but those are habits that’s really hindering their growth. And so you’re right, you’re practicing them to say, “Hey, what would Dr. Matthews do?” So I think that’s a great technique to try to put in force on some of the students that you work with, because we teach, too. And it’s a total different thought process to them, and they want it quick.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Oh, yes, they do.

 

Alicia:

And it didn’t happen quickly.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

No, nothing happens quickly. And you also have to keep speaking into their life what you want them to be, not what they are. I would tell my residents when I first got there, I used to call them the Bad News Bears. But that was like to myself, but I wouldn’t say that to them. And so I would tell them, “You’re going to be a great doctor. You’re going to be an excellent doctor.” So they kept hearing that, and they started believing it. And so then, they start practicing. So whatever you want your kid to be, you can mold them into what you want them to be. But you got to confess what you believe they would be, even though you don’t see it yet.

 

Eileen:

Well, and that kind of reinforcement is like affirmations.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, it is.

 

Eileen:

And you can say affirmations as prayers, you can say them as that. But if you say it enough, you’ll believe it.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes [crosstalk 00:21:45]

 

Eileen:

But having someone else believe in you is even better.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, you gotta practice what you preach. You got to be what you’re telling them to be. You can’t tell them to do something and don’t do it yourself.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You got to lead by example. And that’s another thing that’s really missing when we talk about leadership a lot on our podcast, is it’s a well-known topic all over the world, but it’s very difficult to define because you don’t see a lot of it. And it has many definitions. So we always would know when someone’s doing something wrong when it comes to leadership. And I would say this, too, being a leader doesn’t mean you have to be perfect-

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

No [crosstalk 00:22:24]

 

Alicia:

… and I think that’s a huge misconception. But it is about understanding how you need to lead, because others are watching. At some point, someone is watching. So one of my questions I want to ask you, because you do teach, how do you challenge people to be their best at what they’re trying to do? How do you challenge them?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, when I first started working at my last job, residents, I used to talk to them about research. They thought it was boring, a waste of time. They would run from me and stuff when I used to talk to them about research, and just turn around and start running. They had somewhere to go, somewhere to be. And so I changed my approach. And the approach was, “Look, you do the research, you get your name on a paper, you get a better fellowship, you get a better job.” I said, “Then, look at this, you can get out of work for a couple days. You don’t have to do calls. And then the department will pay for your travel expenses. You can go somewhere. You can go to museums. You can have dinner with some of your relatives in a nice, five-star hotel.”

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

And they start looking at it, “Yeah, I can get out of work for a few days.” And so, they start coming to me, asking me for research. I said, “Then people will respect you a little better.” And so they started buying into that, and then they started coming after me, “You got any research we can do?” So you have to change your approach with this young generation and stuff because when we were growing up, people wanted a Cadillac or a Mercedes or a Lexus. And this generation prefers to ride mass transportation so they can play on their smartphone.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

So you have to try to figure out what motivates people, and everybody’s motivated differently. With some patients … Their mental state is very important. So I would often learn the name of their pets, which is very important. So when they think you’re not paying attention, you ask them, “Well, how’s your pet dog Sam doing?” So you’ll be amazed how that’ll perk them up, because you’re showing interest in that person. And so mentally is as important as the physical healing.

 

Alicia:

I have to agree with you. When somebody asks me about my little dog, Cocoa Max, I’m like, “Oh, they really care.” Now, I don’t know if they really care about me or the dog, but I do take notice.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

No, [crosstalk 00:24:33] care about … Yeah. For them to remember, they care about you and the dog, because if they didn’t care, they wouldn’t even remember your pet’s name.

 

Alicia:

I’m going to be watching everybody, Dr. Matthews: “They didn’t ask about my dog. They don’t” …

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Oh, not necessarily. It’s just an example.

 

Alicia:

I know. I’m going to use that on a few people I [inaudible 00:24:50] just thinking. But I like something that you said about motivation: you have to find out what motivates people.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

So this whole topic is a really connection to us when we in HR. And we find out what motivates people. And everyone has a different motivation tactic, [inaudible 00:25:13]. And once you hit it, they love it, because that’s what they want to do. Because the worst thing you can ever do is promote a person or put a person in a position, and they’re not motivated to do it.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Correct. That’s definitely correct.

 

Alicia:

We got a problem on our hands when people do that. And oftentimes, individuals do that, “Oh, they’ll be great,” but they’re not motivated to get the job done.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, one of the things I’ve noticed as a failure of leadership just in corporate America and just mostly in my world, now, they want to put everybody in one big box, and they do not like anybody to think outside the box, make extra suggestions, or don’t go along with the plan. That does not mean that person’s disagreeable. For example, with me, I’ve always been a person, just tell me what I need to do, I get the job done. So I did not ever care for bosses trying to tell me how to do it. I’m like, “Well, you want me to do it, or you want to do it?” So that was one of my big pet peeves, and so they try to make everybody fit into this box. And so one of my chairmans finally see it. He said, “Well, it’s okay.” He said, “Dr. Matthews may think a little differently. He likes to fly upside down, but he doesn’t hit any buildings.” And so you have to treat-

 

Alicia:

I like that.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

… all your workers fairly, but it’s just a fallacy to believe you can treat everybody the exact same. Some people need a little bit more motivation. If you noticed, the old school teachers, some of the bad kids, they’ll put them right beside their desk and give them extra attention, or one that wouldn’t do right, make him a hall monitor. It’ll help his self-esteem or personality. So you can’t say that we’re just going to treat everybody the exact same, because people have different motivations. They have different self-esteems, and so you have to find out what motivates the person and find out something personally about the person, what makes them tick.

 

Eileen:

Well, and that’s what you need today, is to take a little bit more time to get to know people, especially right now, what to do with them, right, and with the iPhones. People are doing a lot of chatting, a lot of email, that the interpretation can go away, right, just through words. So when you work with someone in your life, in your practice, your vitamin D coaching, whatever you’re speaking, when you go and engage with somebody, how do you start to open that relationship to build trust?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, like I said, being the youngest of 12, I can talk to anybody about anything. So it’s a matter of being comfortable with yourself, making the other person feel comfortable. And you have to make them feel like they’re important and stuff. And so, you just can’t dismiss … Some people are dismissive of people. They’re arrogant, condescending. So you have to try to avoid all those type of body languages and body movements. So you make a person feel comfortable, they begin to open up to you.

 

Alicia:

So one of the things I like about what you were saying is with this generation, you’ve got to know how to talk to people. And one of the things that I find out, specifically when it’s students and when you’re trying to motivate them, or people are trying to put you in a box … And I’m a believer like you. I mean, I was like, “He thinks like I think.” Allow people to think outside that box.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

Allow people to be who they are, and the greatness comes out that way. So, how do you handle that when you see it with your students, because I get excited when you allow them to be who they are and you get to explore that greatness? What’s the feedback? How do you push them and encourage them to do more greatness, from that point of them just being exposed to just they can feel comfortable with being around you to think outside the box? How do you handle that exploration of that when they do it?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, actually, I would tell my residents and medical students, they would say, “Well, Dr. Matthews, when I finish medical school or residency, I want to be like you.” And I would tell them, “No, be better than me. I’m training you to take it to the next generation.” So I say, “I expect you to be better than me and take the foundation I’ve given you and then take it to the next level.”

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

So I tell them it’s okay to think outside the box. I said, “But, you got to be right and you got to be based on scientific principles. And you got to put the work in. There aren’t any shortcuts in life, and you got to read, read, read, read, read.” That was one thing, in most of them, the evaluation, I used to always put, “You need to read more.” It was like, “Dr. Matthews, you put that in everybody’s evaluation.” I’m like, “You always need to read more. I need to read more.” So I try and encourage a passion for reading now.

 

Alicia:

Well, you really sound like my dad. So this is what I’ve been doing at the beginning or mid of last year: I put it on my calendar now, on my Google thing alert, to read at least two to three articles a day, every day, including Saturday and Sunday. And this is what I do, Dr. Matthews, when I miss a day, that next day, I’m doubling up. And you’re right. But what happens is, you get so engrossed … I mean, it’s a good thing. It becomes normal. And so, I can understand why you tell them that, and I think they’re going to get it later, too. So I like how you’re pushing them to read, especially in the field that they’re in, because things are constantly changing. So the business we’re in, I feel like, “Oh, this is great stuff, because things are always changing.”

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

And constantly.

 

Alicia:

Yeah, constantly changing.

 

Eileen:

Well, and with reading, there’s always something to read. We’re never going to be able to read everything in the world.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Correct.

 

Eileen:

And I have found out that reading at work, reading at home, ignites innovation and creativity. It really does. By learning from someone else or reading, a lot of times, Dr. Alicia will say that, and I’ll put comments on the side of the article and then bring it forward to maybe our book that we’re writing. It just turns things. So I think reading is so important, every day, to ignite critical thinking skills.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes. That’s very important. You know you need to read a variety of different things. So as a former trauma surgeon, I would come in contact with people from all walks of life, from the poorest of the poorest to the richest of the rich. And they all had various different things that motivated them, different things they liked. So being versatile, I can basically talk to anybody about anything on most levels. And so you can connect better with people. So if I have a person that’s an art lover, I can talk to them a little bit about art. If I had a young kid that was wayward, not knowing what he was going to do in life, I understood some of the rap. I don’t listen to it, but I understood some of the rap. And so, you got to meet them where they are. If you read the Bible, that’s what Jesus Christ did. He met people where they are, but he expected them to always improve.

 

Alicia:

So my nephews, one is 20 and one is 5 and one is 11, and then I have one that’s 33. Dr. Matthews, I’m just trying to read stuff to see what they’re seeing, so I can understand [inaudible 00:32:21] like I’m so much older than them. And I get that, because I used to just read one thing in an area. And then I started, a couple years ago, saying, “Let me just read this.” And within the last year, it’s been political stuff. And I’m thinking, “Oh,” because this stuff used to be boring, but now it’s pretty interesting. And the reason why it’s interesting is because I’ve been focusing on the leadership aspect of it. So now it’s been attracting me to that. So how do you get your students to read outside of the parameters, just like you did, so they can connect it back? So how do you do that? Because there is a lot of connection with reading outside of what you normally would read.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, one day, while we were in rounds in the ICU, I asked my residents and medical students and nurse practitioners, did they know who Secretariat was? And I said, “Secretariat was the greatest athlete ever.” It was like, “We never heard of Secretariat. Who is that?” I said, “You never heard of Secretariat, the great horse that won the Triple Crown and basically almost lapped the other horses and won the Preakness or won the Belmont?” I said, “That was the greatest athlete to ever live.” And so I showed them a little video clip of Secretariat, and I said, “Secretariat had lost a race in between, and he just went mad that last race.” And so, I often educated them on things previous, but I incorporated it in a way that made it interesting to them. And I said, “This is how you should be in life. When you don’t do well, you need to come back strong.”

 

Eileen:

Absolutely, I agree. I mean, I think there was a quote that said, “After the fall, the comeback is greater,” right?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, it should be.

 

Eileen:

And I want to go back to something you said earlier about meeting people where they are. And no matter how old you are or where you’re at, that’s very great advice. And even as a spiritual person and trying not to judge, it is so hard sometimes to do that, is to meet people where they are, especially people who challenge you, right?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

 

Eileen:

Do you have any tips or critical thinking skills that you use to help you meet people exactly wherever they are, and just embrace them in human kindness?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, one example I like to use all the time is you had patients, whenever traumatic patients came in, a car crash or an accident, we have to do drug screens on trauma patients. And so often, about 20% to 30% would have something in their system that was a recreational drug. And I would ask them, “Have you done any drugs, anything like that?” And they would hesitate. They didn’t want to tell you at first. And I said, “Look,” I said, “I only need to know this because if I give you a medication that interacts with something that you’ve taken” … I said, “I don’t report this. This is between you and whomever.” I said, “I don’t recommend illicit drug use, but I’m not judging anybody. My job here is to find out everything that’s in your system and what medical conditions you have so I can treat you properly.”

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

So they would open up, because you’re not judging them at that point. They said, “Okay, he just want to know what I’m doing.” So I would not raise an eyebrow, make any funny faces. I just kept a straight, professional face. So you’re absolutely right, when people feel you’re judging them or casting them down, you can’t reach them. They shut down on you. That’s all people. And so, I think that’s one of the biggest problems in religion right now, is that they have a tendency to judge people, and we’re all guilty of the exact same offenses. They just have different names. And then there’s always three fingers pointing back at us. So all of us can improve every day and each day. You help those that want help. Those that don’t want help, you just pray for them and keep moving til they want help. So the big thing is, is that’s the hardest thing for Christians to do, is to not judge people.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Absolutely. And when you said you pray for them, I send them blessings, I send them love. And meeting them where they are, right?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

 

Eileen:

Because I speak on forgiveness, too, and none of us are perfect.

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

No, not by any means.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Right. We always have to ask for forgiveness, we all have to forgive ourselves, and we all have to forgive others. And I always say, “We’re not going to leave this planet without doing that,” right? And that’s the best thing. So I put trying to put non-judging and forgiveness there because if you’re judging someone, you’re projecting, but you’re also … who’s to say that you’re perfect, right?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

None of us are.

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Eileen:

None of us are is right. Nobody is.

 

Alicia:

Not by a long shot.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Uh-uh (negative). Not even close.

 

Alicia:

Yeah, yeah. And one of the things, too, is, I like how you had to explain it to the patient, right, because it really was for to protect them to ask that question because, like you said, you can’t give them something that’s going to be a huge impact on their health or their life at some point. And so, it’s really understanding how to talk to … It’s that bedside manners, as they would say, from a doctor, and show that love and compassion at the same time.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Well, there’s another area I had great mentors in. When I was at the University of Mississippi Medical Center, I had a lot of English doctors from the country of England, and bedside manner was very important. If you approach the patient’s bedside on the wrong side … You should always approach on the left in the English system. If you approached on the right, you flunked the exam.

 

Alicia:

Oh, wow.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

And then if you didn’t introduce yourself to the patient and to the proper gestures immediately, you flunked the exam. So if you violated any protocol in terms of patient bedside manner … So I think that’s not being taught as much as it used to be in the old days.

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Eileen:

What an impact. There had to be research behind that-

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

… and reasons why they put that in. And it could even been connected to healing, having the person heal better.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, it was. Well, and how people perceive you the first few minutes or the first few seconds determines a lot. So people make judgments on you when they first meet you at first, so if you approach them wrong, you’ve lost them from the beginning.

 

Alicia:

I can agree with you on that. You are absolutely right. That’s interesting, you have to approach them on the right side of the bed, or else you flunk that class. Wow, bedside manners is … So that’s a vital component to becoming a successful doctor at that point because it may seem kind of minor to someone else, but it’s really huge.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, it is. It makes a big difference.

 

Eileen:

Well, and as a patient, if you’re healing and you’re dealing with a trauma, an illness, a disease, having that trust in that doctor makes you believe that you can even heal better, too. So there has to be a connection on all those protocols and research that they did for the holistic healing of the patient.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

And another thing I learned from those English doctors, they said, “If you learn how to listen, really listen, close your mouth, shut up and let the patient tell you the story … You try to put words in their mouth and cut them off … You should be able to make 85% of the diagnosis if you listen to the patient.” They said, “Basically, they’re telling you what the diagnosis is by telling you what symptoms they have, how severe they are, where it hurts and what hurts.”

 

Alicia:

Wow, they have to listen to the patient.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, which a lot of doctors interject, they interrupt them, they’re in a hurry, got to go, and so you don’t see that being taught as an art like it used to be.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. And that’s very important. You need to listen.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Oh, yes, very.

 

Alicia:

Listening skills, interesting.

 

Eileen:

Well, and Alicia knows this, I always coach my people saying, “Listen and silent have the same letters.”

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

Yes, she uses that one on her clients, yes. I always say this, “Time flies when we’re having great fun.” And we are certainly enjoying the conversation with you, Dr. Matthews. Before we end, we would like you to leave words of wisdom with our listening audience. And we had a lot. And I’m sure you have more to share. So what are some words of wisdom, as we close out?

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Oh, like I said, number one thing is have humility as you go throughout life, develop a work ethic. My dad and mom always taught me to have a passion for what you do. So it’s got to be something that you loved doing that if you had enough money, you’d do it for free. So you got to find that. Most people don’t have passion for what they do now. They’re just going through the motions. It’s just a job. It’s not a passion. So those are some of the things that I would recommend people to do in life today. And then communicate more. I think we spend too much time on smartphones texting, and we don’t actually talk and communicate as well as we used to in the past.

 

Alicia:

One of the things, I picked up the phone to call somebody because I didn’t want to text. And I said, “I’m really tired of texting.” I want to hear somebody’s voice.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yeah [crosstalk 00:41:52]

 

Alicia:

Yes. You go for a period of time, because we’ve been on lockdown, and you’re texting everyone. And it was a month or two at the beginning of the year, and I said, “I don’t want to text this person. I want to pick up the phone and call that person, just to hear a voice.” And we have gotten away from that. So I like that we need to communicate more because what happens is you lose effectiveness of communication.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, you do [crosstalk 00:42:22]

 

Alicia:

And then you don’t know how to communicate in relationships, you don’t know how to communicate at work, you don’t know how to communicate at school, with your friends, and everything is not all about texting them.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

And you’d be amazed with this young generation, we had to interview people for residency and medical school, a lot of them, you have to teach now to maintain eye contact, because a lot of these young medical applicants and residents, because they’re used to looking down from texting, they don’t maintain eye contact. So we have to teach them that, and interviewing skills, how to maintain eye contact. And then their interviewing skills are not adequate because they do not communicate enough to develop adequate communication skills. So you can be a straight-A student, have the highest scores, but if you come off with a poor interview, you could not get into medical school or that selective slot or residency that you wanted. So communication skills are very important.

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Eileen:

And they’re human skills.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes. Yes, they are. Correct.

 

Eileen:

Human skills. Communication skills are human skills. I mean, we’re energetic beings.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, we are.

 

Eileen:

And we’re not phone beings, smartphone beings. So both of those words of wisdom, wonderful.

 

Alicia:

Oh, yes. Yes. And really, it’s about what we would call soft skills.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, correct.

 

Alicia:

That you have to now reinvent these to say, “You need to look up at me when you’re in the interview, or come prepared, in a sense, and ready to communicate; prep.” So that’s amazing that at that level, you have to now: “You can’t get this particular residency because you can’t do the soft skills part of the job.”

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yes, that’s correct. You see a lot of that now, and it’s not their fault, because it’s our job to teach them these things.

 

Eileen:

Right, and I mean, it is. I mean, and all three of us right here are so blessed because we can communicate and we didn’t grow up with smartphones in our hands.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

No. no, we did not.

 

Eileen:

And how can we share the positives of that? I mean, smartphones are wonderful for many things, but we can help people with the coaching of human interaction and technology, because we can remember when we didn’t have a phone.

 

Alicia:

Yes, we didn’t have phones like this. Yeah.

 

Dr. L. Ray Matthews:

Yeah. And if you read Bill Gates, one of the pioneers in the software computer industry, he actually says that he and his wife limited the number of hours that their kids spent on a computer at a younger age, to teach them to read and to communicate better. So the man that was at the forefront of the computer industry understood that very well.

 

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on Soul of a Leader podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul, and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.