Alicia:

Hello and welcome to the Soul of a Leader podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. On today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with Lisa Davidson to discuss, Keep Moving Forward.

 

Eileen:

Welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast. In today’s episode, we have Lisa Davidson. Lisa is the vice chairman and chief diversity officer of Savills. Lisa has more than 30 years of experience in commercial real estate, including extensive expertise in early lease renegotiations and executing over 25 million square feet of transactions for clients ranging from local Chicago firms to global accounts. Lisa’s knowledge of the industry has provided her a platform to speak to groups about real estate strategy, building diversity in the workplace, and women in leadership positions. Welcome, Lisa. Thank you.

 

Alicia:

Yeah! Eileen did a great job reading that. Is there anything else you would like to add?

 

Lisa:

Yeah, absolutely. Since my children left for college a few years back, I have found myself with a little more time on my hands. And there are two very important things that… One thing I joined that I’ll just call it like my side hustle and that’s I became an angel investor and got very involved in the startup community and I’m a member at Hyde Park Angels. And so that has been great fun and a great learning experience for me. And then recently, there was a group that came to Chicago, and I was one of the first people to get on board. It’s called Chief, and I was so excited because this is an organization that… one of those things that I had always wished existed and now it does. I’ve been having a great time there doing that as well.

 

Eileen:

Thank you so much.

 

Alicia:

Very interesting.

 

Eileen:

Yes. Thank you so much. Tell me a little bit more about Hyde Park Angels, because angels are so near and dear to my soul. I paint a lot of angels, so when you said that, I just was like, “Wow, this is great.” Tell us a little bit more.

 

Lisa:

Well, it’s not that angel, although some for startup companies, I guess they might look at it that way. Basically, Hyde Park Angels is a group of about a hundred investors. We are focused on companies in the Midwest, and they are startup companies which are looking for funding. And so essentially, we have founders of new companies who come to Hyde Park Angels, they’re raising money, and they come tell our group about their company and why we should invest in them. And the great thing about Hyde Park Angels is because we all come from different backgrounds, there is typically more than one person in the group who knows the industry, that’s the founder who is trying to disrupt. And so you get some real insight into what the pitfalls might be, whether this is a good idea.

 

Lisa:

At that same token, we can also, beyond money, help the founders with our expertise. So they pitch their business to us, it’s much like Shark Tank, and we decide whether we want to invest. And if the group goes forward, then as an individual, you can still decide to invest or not invest. And it’s terrific because it keeps you on the pulse of what’s going on in Chicago, what new companies are out there, and it’s also a way of giving back. We often make a point of talking to female leaders, leaders of color, and as an individual, you can decide that might be one of your criteria for investing. So it’s a terrific way to give back.

 

Alicia:

Yeah, yeah. I like the concept of it’s almost like the Shark Tank. And then I also like the point that as an angel investor, you get to select, but you connect those values to who you want to select to be an angel to. And just like Eileen would say it, you could be an angel to them in great ways of helping them in some areas that they have issues with or gaps, so you can help fill those. And so my [crosstalk 00:04:59] Oh, go ahead.

 

Lisa:

I was just going to add to that and for me, I was born and raised in Chicago, I went to school in Chicago, I’ve never lived anywhere else. So the fact that it’s solely focused on Midwest companies, I like that too.

 

Alicia:

Oh, yes. Yes. You have the region of people that you are most familiar with of this area. But one of the things I want to even add to that is when you’re sitting there listening to some of the presentations, what type of leadership style do you look for in those individuals that you want to partner with?

 

Lisa:

Yeah. Some of it is a little… I don’t want to say… I don’t think you should always go by your gut, but it’s a little bit of it, it’s a little bit of a gut of when they’re presenting, do you see this leader as someone who’s authentic, who’s listening, who would be responsive to feedback and criticism? But I also just like to see a real energy and enthusiasm. I remember one of the questions that always comes up when they come in the door is, where do you see this going? Where do you see your exit? The exit is when the investors make their money. I remember one investor came in and a lot of companies they get acquired and that’s what they’re looking for. This one investor came in and they asked him about his path. And he said, “I want to ring the bell.” And for me, that showed great confidence and enthusiasm in his company, meaning he wanted to one day take it public. He wasn’t looking for that exit. And so that was the company we went forward on, and I invested in them and they’re doing terrific so far.

 

Eileen:

That is a wonderful story. When you engage in this investment, you’re not only giving your financial support, but are you giving your time also? Do you become an advisor? Are you on the board?

 

Lisa:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

How do you guide and help them?

 

Lisa:

Absolutely.

 

Eileen:

If you want to share a little bit about that.

 

Lisa:

Yeah. Oftentimes, the people at Hyde Park Angels will have a seat on the board so that we can give them our expertise and help guide them. Personally, for example, I can think of one company where they needed help with enterprise sales. And so given my background, I went and gave them some thoughts on that. So there’s lots of ways that we provide them and connect them with people. We’re always seeing all along the way, when they have asks, when they’re looking… Maybe they’re looking to hire a chief technology officer or they’re having problems on the sales side or whatever the case may be, we are there to help them in that way as well.

 

Alicia:

One of the important things is being a part of the board. It really gives you more insight on the process-

 

Lisa:

What’s going on, yeah.

 

Alicia:

… and what’s going on and how you can bring in extra help before it’s too late.

 

Lisa:

Exactly.

 

Alicia:

It has its benefits in so many ways.

 

Lisa:

So many. It’s amazing. Yeah.

 

Alicia:

But what is the most challenging moment you had through this process of connecting with one of the organizations that, “Well, I went by my gut and it still could be good,” but what was that challenging moment that you thought…

 

Lisa:

Okay. I’ll tell you what I did learn. Before I joined Hyde Park Angels, I was investing on my own. I was an unintentional investor. So basically what happened is that because tech was a growing part of fueling the Chicago real estate scene, I just wanted to know more about it. And I figured the best way to do that and the only way I could connect with them was on the female front. A lot of people in my business, they would go out to parties and drinking and I’m too old for that. Most of them in our industry is male, so I said, “How can I do this?” So I started out by… I actually read about… When I first contacted her Women Tech Founders, she probably thought I was a crank, but I read an article in the paper about Women Tech Founders. And there was something in there that she said that I liked. I just called her up, and I said, “Do you need a sponsor?”

 

Lisa:

I don’t think they believed me at first. When I emailed, I think they thought, “Who is this person?” And I became the sponsor that helped them get off the ground and got a seat on their leadership team and was quickly able to meet a lot of female founders. But when I started meeting these female founders and finding out that they needed investors and how little of the money for investment went to women, I soon found myself writing checks. And it was completely unintentional, and I didn’t know what I was doing. For me, honestly it was like, “Oh, this seems like a nice person. This is a great idea for a business. Wow, she really seems her act together,” and just wanting to, and that’s really-

 

Alicia:

Be there to support.

 

Lisa:

… Yeah. And you know what? Angel investing is risky in itself, but that was a really just dumb way of going about it in my emotions. But what I did, I will have to say that I did in my mind, because I know it’s a risky business anyway, know that your investment can go to nothing. But at the time it felt good to help female investors that maybe wouldn’t have otherwise been able to get off the ground.

 

Eileen:

Wow! That is really a great story because what I’m thinking is you’ll have many different types of people listening here right now. What ignited or what gave you the courage just to start saying, “I want to do this. I want to be a sponsor. I want to be an angel investor. I want to do this,”? If you could share a little bit about that story.

 

Lisa:

I do have to say that I’m a bit of a gambler at heart. From the second I went to Las Vegas and won some money at blackjack, I do have to say, [crosstalk 00:12:03] I have a little bit of that mentality. I’m just acting without overthinking it. But I’ve always come out okay. But I have to say this, I do that, but not out of my… I do it within enough… always knowing that if I lose and I go to zero, I’m okay. I know what amount of money that I have, that I can say, “If this goes to zero and okay.” And at heart, I’m an optimist. So for me, I always connect things. I always think, “Okay, well…” I helped this woman, and I gave her all this money and they didn’t make it. And so that money just went up in smoke, but who knows down the road how I might feel that that might come back to me in other ways? So I’m always feeling this energy, this particular nature, you put it out there and it comes back. And I think [crosstalk 00:12:57]

 

Alicia:

That it’s going to come back. Yes, yes.

 

Lisa:

Yeah. And I think also I have to tell you, I grew up in Chicago in a very under-resourced neighborhood in Albany Park 30 years ago. We lived in a four-room… My bedroom was the dining room. I went to a Chicago public high school, where hardly anybody went to college. My expectations for myself, even at the time, were, looking back, very low. If I just made enough money to maybe… Our family never had anything. We didn’t own a house, a car, nothing. We took public transportation. So I think just maybe one day owning a small bungalow and a car, to me, that would have been success. So I think that I’ve gone so much beyond that. It makes me feel a little more… I’m not afraid of poverty, and oddly, it doesn’t tie me so much to money. The rest feels like extra, you know?

 

Alicia:

Yeah. That’s that passion in you too, I can see listening to you. And so there’s no real connection to the money, but it is a connection in a sense that you want to have faith in that individual you’re helping, and it does come back. Sometimes you just don’t know. And so I think when your hands are open like that, and your heart is right about what you want to do, you’re really directing that somewhere.

 

Lisa:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

How do you in turn, at that point, help guide them when you start investing? Obviously you’re taking a risk and so you want to guide them at that point. What steps do you take?

 

Lisa:

So me personally, in those days, it was more like, “Every company is different. Tell me what you need.” I’m a big connector. For example, I have a big base on LinkedIn that I’m connected to, and I’m always telling people, “I’m so open to introduce you to anybody that you need.” When my children were still at home and I also had elderly parents, I’m an only child that depended on me, and I have to tell you that I didn’t do any networking. I pretty much worked and I went home. And since my parents have passed, my kids have moved out. That’s the main thing I’ve done; I’ve gone out and either joined different organizations or become more involved in the ones that I was part of, but maybe not as engaged in. And so I really enjoy connecting people and getting so excited when something good comes from it.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Eileen:

Well, thank you so much. And that leads me right to my next question about networking and the organization chief, right?

 

Lisa:

Yeah, yeah.

 

Eileen:

Could you tell us a little bit about that, and then the name, and everything? I would love to hear more.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Lisa:

Yeah, absolutely. I think the organization, the name, is because it was started in New York and then they recently opened up the Chicago Clubhouse, which is in Fulton market. The idea of the name, I think, is that it’s an organization for women. You don’t have to be a C-suite woman, but for people, this is an organization for women who are a little farther along in their career. But I like to think of it, it’s like the female version of the [inaudible 00:16:41] Network. So you get a bunch of… What we found in common is that a bunch of us, we’re all in these industries that are male dominated and we don’t have anybody. And if you are in this C-suite, or you are further along in your career, there’s even fewer women like you to bond with and to run things by that are similar to you. So it’s a peer group outside your company, outside your industry, but yet they can really connect to you because you’re at the same level in your career and likely have similar challenges.

 

Lisa:

And so one of the best parts, or two of my favorite… No, three of my favorite things about Chief are, first of all, I’m going to say… I don’t know which to name first. First of all, when I joined it and became a founding member, at first, I was hesitant because it was actually during the pandemic, they had the bad fortune of opening in Chicago during the pandemic. And I thought, “Well, you’re not even going to be able to go to the Clubhouse. And the last thing I need in my life is another Zoom speaker.”

 

Alicia:

I know, right?

 

Lisa:

Yeah. But I have to tell you, they have speakers like… Oh my God, I have been on Zooms hearing Gloria Steinem and all these celebrity speakers. And it’s just been incredible. People I would not normally have access to. And so the topics and the authors of books, they have been incredible. Secondly, and probably this is the best thing, they assign everybody a core group, which is your personal board of directors. And so that you have a group of 10 or 12 women, they take it very seriously, there’s a facilitator, you meet monthly and more often if you want to, and that has been terrific because you suddenly have this built-in group of not just board of directors, but they become your friends. And that part has been really terrific. And then finally, they have an incredible app that you’re all part of as a member. And they just do a really terrific job at providing value in terms of…

 

Lisa:

I’ll tell you one thing they have on the app. For example, they have something called The Intro. So it’s like I missed out on the whole dating of swiping, here’s my chance. Every month, they said that The Intro has recommended that you connect with these three women. And if I want to talk to them, I message them in the app. If I don’t, I just swipe. And nobody knows who got who, so you don’t know who’s swiping left or right. But it’s really cool because it motivates you to engage with each other.

 

Lisa:

And then there’s all sorts of groups created on the app to connect. For example, somebody created a group to talk about going back to work and what’s everybody’s procedures and plans for vaccines and timing and your policies? How are you changing once we come back? And so somebody created this group, and now we’re having this subset group who’s interested in that topic. We’re having monthly meetings to share and compare what our companies are doing. And so there’s all… There’s even personal things on there, people saying, “Hey, I’m renting a house,” or, “Does anybody know where I can get stuff?” Anything you want, you know?

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Lisa:

You have this peer group? So it’s been great fun. And the funny thing is I’ve never been to the… because of COVID, I’ve never been to the clubhouse and I’ve never met any of these women in person. And that is going to be really exciting when I get to.

 

Alicia:

It’s that bonding via the electronic stuff, via the Zoom or the text messaging, which is a whole nother area of bonding for women. But what I hear a lot of too within the last year too, it’s more women are stepping up more to create these organizations so that we all can support one another. And so in the midst of that, how do you find your values, a name for them, as you’re bonding with these women, as you’re networking, what are four top values that you find yourself exercising through this process?

 

Lisa:

Four top values? Well, okay. I didn’t think of it at the time, but off the top of my head, my first core value, I think for myself is just, and I’ve passed this on to my kids, is just follow through. I am somebody who if I say I’m going to call you, I call you. You can rely on me. In fact, I don’t mean to digress, but I just got to tell you one quick story.

 

Alicia:

Sure.

 

Eileen:

Please do.

 

Lisa:

My daughter, when she was applying to college she had a really tough time figuring out what her essay was going to be. And she wasn’t finding anything special about herself that she thought was worthy to put down. And I said, “Amanda, they just want to get to know who you are.” So I said, “Okay, how about this,” I said, “you have a group of girlfriends. And in every group of girlfriends, there’s the one who takes care of you, there’s the one who plans all the activities. Everybody has a little bit of a role.”

 

Lisa:

I said, “In your group, who are you? Who would they say, ‘Well, Amanda’s the…'” And she said, “I don’t know, I guess I’m the reliable one.” And I said, “Well, there you go. Think of a time and write a story about that. There’s nothing wrong with that. You can be counted upon.” So I guess one value would be… it’s a family value for me and most important that I put out there. So follow through. Two is to be yourself, just be authentic. I spent a lot of years… Quite frankly, when I first got into the real estate business in the ’80s, I was trying to watch the Bears play football, because that’s what everybody was talking about, and I just really had no interest in that. I was trying to learn how to play golf and had no real interest in that. I’ve given all that up.

 

Lisa:

I think maybe sometimes you need to get to a certain age where you’re confident enough to be yourself, but I think that it’s so much more pleasant for everyone and certainly you enjoy it more. You can’t be confident when you’re not being [inaudible 00:23:52], right?

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Lisa:

Because that’s scary to be pretending. And third, I would say another value for me is when I’m connecting with other people and networking, I try to be the first one to give; to not ask for something, but to, “How can I help you? What can I give you? What can I offer you?” And that too, you don’t do it because it comes back, but it will. Again, it just feels better. At the end of the day, it’s all… I had this ethics class one time. The professor talked about how you… there’s no such thing as selflessness. Every single thing you do is ultimately for yourself. So even if you were giving up your life to save your child, ultimately, you’re doing it because otherwise you’d feel too bad about yourself. So my point here is that even though it may be altruistic to say, “Give first,” or any of these things, ultimately, it just makes you feel good. It does. It’s a better way to live.

 

Lisa:

My fourth is I try to say no very few times. I just try to always say… and that’s what gets me in trouble with investing, but I try… My husband always says this, I’m that person who’s always accidentally overbooking myself or at the same time, because… And I’m not that I… You have to monitor and certainly there’s a whole talk you could give about saying no, right?

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Lisa:

Do not overwhelm yourself. But what I mean by saying yes, I don’t mean so that you overwhelm yourself, but so that you give people a chance. I get people who reach out to me and want to pitch me an idea or whatever it is, and I just like to not shut things down so quickly. I like to hear from everybody.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. And give everybody a chance to present what… It could be something great or something you’ve never even thought about and be like, “Wow!”

 

Lisa:

You just never know.

 

Alicia:

And sometimes you may say, “Hey this is great, but I can refer you to a friend that would be good.” So you just never know.

 

Lisa:

Yeah. And this is too… And under the thing of you never know, okay, this is a fifth one. My [crosstalk 00:26:29] fifth one is I don’t like to overshare, but I’m actually not a very private person. I’m a very open person. And when it comes to, for example, I’ll give you one example, years ago, my husband had lung cancer. Today he’s perfectly fine, knock on wood, but those are the types. Everybody’s different, but I feel like when you share, whether it’s some family thing you’re going through, medical issues, or for years, my children fought anxiety and depression, when you share these things, you will be shocked at what you learn. And you not only will be shocked to find out, especially on the anxiety and depression front, you will be shocked to find out how many families are going through what you’re going through and how better it feels for all of you to find that out, and how much you can help each other with information and perhaps finding help.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. And that’s exactly what I was thinking about; you can help one another at that point, but you can’t if no one knows.

 

Lisa:

You can’t if nobody knows, right?

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Eileen:

You were saying be yourself. And by being your best and true self, you’re able to open up. As Alicia said earlier, if we have a fist and we hold it like this, we’re not receiving, but if you’re open and being your best and true self, no matter who you are, a woman, someone of a different ethnicity, that is how this world is going to move forward. And by people like you and others role modeling that, there is an energy that connects you, like you just said. You said, “When I share, then people will start sharing.” It’s true because you know what? There’s a connection and that we’re all vulnerable and we’re on this planet to learn. We are going to have pain, but do we have to [inaudible 00:28:45] But that’s the thing, is the openness, being your true and best self, you’ll be on purpose, you’ll be connected. There’s so much about what you just said in your values that is so much larger to the whole.

 

Lisa:

Yeah. Again, I tell my kids when they get down about different challenges or whatever, everybody has their stuff, it’s just different stuff and it’s at different times. And some people maybe they sailed through the youth of their life, but you know what? Nobody goes through life unscathed. Unfortunately, we all have our stuff. Everybody has challenges and you can’t look at the other person, whether they’re wealthy, they’re good looking, their families are perfect and smart, whatever it is, believe me, they have challenges that you may not know about and we’re all vulnerable.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. And there is no perfect world, which means there are no perfect individuals, there’s no perfect marriage, there’s no perfect family, there’s no perfect anything. I like what you say, how you tell your kids how to look at situations, because I was just having a conversation with my nephew, which is my godson, and I mentored him a lot, teaching him every day, “You got to learn how to save and budget,” because as he was growing up with me and we would go play, he would always laugh. “Auntie, you’re always on a budget.” Now he is 20. Lisa, he calls me today. “Auntie, auntie, auntie, okay, my car got towed. That’s going into my budget.” I say, “It’s [inaudible 00:30:42] It just put me… It made no sense. And now, look, I had to spend this and I didn’t plan it. I’m not going over my friends.”

 

Alicia:

And I asked my friend, I said, “Now you see, you made a decision, you asked your friends,” and I did everything right. [crosstalk 00:31:04] “I asked my friend and he said, ‘Oh, you should be okay.'” “Your friend was wrong. Now your friend cost you money. Tell me what you’re going to do next time.” He said, “Auntie, I’m not going. I’m not going over to his house again.” Exactly.

 

Lisa:

It feels so good when they grow up and they come back to you and you have that moment of connection where they finally get you, they finally understand why you were telling them that and that you’re not a crazy person, and that maybe you do know a little bit. So I hear ya. It’s a good feeling.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. I told him, I said, “See, this is why I’ve been hard.” You say, “Auntie, you are always hard on me.” “But I’m not really hard on you, I’m just telling you this is life.” I said, “Welcome to the real world of adulthood. Number two, now you see what I’ve been telling you. So now you got to sit back, regroup, and now you got to look better with your decisions on, ‘Should I go over this friend’s house? Does he have a driveway? Look at the signs around. Or you’re just going to stay home, say, ‘I’ll just talked with you guys later.” And so now I’ll just giving him a little more leadership on making better decisions and thinking about things a little more differently before he makes that final decision to go. That costs him about a couple hundred dollars. And for a 20-year-old, that’s a lot of money.

 

Lisa:

Yeah. I find too that oftentimes you don’t think they’re listening and you never know what’s sinking in. I’ve certainly been, along the way, shocked to find out some of the things that sink in and it makes you laugh when you find out that that one thing you said… I have to tell you, this is a little bit off topic, but it reminded me of when I was… I told you that I went to a high school where hardly anybody went to college. And so literally in May of my senior year, I went to the college counselor’s office, and I was like, “Well, when do we find out about college? What are we supposed to do?” And she was like, “Oh, well, all the dates have expired. Let’s see, the only date left is the Northeastern.” So I was like, “Okay, I guess that’s where I’m going.”

 

Lisa:

So I went to Northeastern, which was right down the street from my house. But then one day, this… I never had to know how to describe this, this man in my neighborhood who had one of those little Vienna hotdog stores, he was there in my neighborhood my entire life. I’ve been going to him with my Mom since I was a little girl, and my Mom would brag to him about my report card or something like that. And one day he says to me, “Lisa, you’re a smart girl. You ought to go to Northwestern.” That’s how I ended up at Northwestern. Just from that one sentence, because I literally did not know the names of colleges. I didn’t know that it made a difference where you went, I didn’t know any of that.

 

Lisa:

Things you take for granted that some [crosstalk 00:34:13] You didn’t have the internet [inaudible 00:34:15], so I called up Northwestern, and I got the application, and I got the financial aid application and everything. I applied and I got in, and I went to Northwestern. I transferred. And that, really, I feel changed the trajectory of my life. It really did. Fast forward [inaudible 00:34:40] His name was Maury. Now, fast forward, so years, years later, I’m in the real estate business and there’s this developer who’s asking me where I grew up, and I say, “Albany Park.” And he says, “Oh, well, oh, that’s so funny. I guess he grew up in Albany Park. He was much older than me. Years before, it was this Jewish neighborhood.

 

Lisa:

He grew up there, and I told him… He said, “Well, how did you get from there to here?” And I told him my story and he says, “I know Maury.”

 

Alicia:

Oh my God!

 

Lisa:

And I said, “You know Maury?” He says, “Yes. His last name is [Andice 00:35:11].” And I said, “Oh my God.” And I said, “I’ve always wanted to thank him, but I never knew his last name or how to get in touch with him to tell him what a difference in my life he made.” And he said, “Well, unfortunately, Maury passed away.” But he said, “His children…” Particularly he had a son, he said, “He works at a law firm right down the street from you.” And he gave me his email. I reached out to his son, and I said, “You don’t know me, but I wanted to let you know that your Dad, what an influence he had on me.” And I wrote him this email.”

 

Lisa:

And, oh my God, he forwarded to his Mom and his sisters and they were so excited and happy to hear what… Because I guess that was the thing, I didn’t know that their Dad always had this big belief in education and helped kids. I didn’t know. I just bought hotdogs at his hotdog place. But yeah. So you never know. I think about that, because I think one sentence, one sentence, might change somebody’s life. Something you say.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Well, and that goes back to your follow-through; one sentence he told you and you said… Something ignited in you to say, “Yes, I trust this sentence, I trust this man. I’m going to act.” It goes back to the value that you had a follow through.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Lisa:

Yeah.

 

Eileen:

If you didn’t follow through, [crosstalk 00:36:38] everything could have been different. [crosstalk 00:36:40] Yes!

 

Alicia:

Yes!

 

Eileen:

That is an amazing story, Lisa.

 

Alicia:

Amazing story, Lisa.

 

Eileen:

Amazing in how it came full circle that you found her, his son. Oh my gosh!

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Lisa:

Yeah. It was a nice moment. I was sad that he didn’t know, but I was happy to tell his children what a difference he made, because we all want to… I feel like, especially as I get older, you want to know you made a difference in the world. The world’s a better place because you were in it, right?

 

Alicia:

Yes. Yeah, yeah. And specifically, once… I call it those moments of someone dropping seed in your life and you’re not knowing how that seed is going to blossom.

 

Lisa:

Yeah. That’s a nice analogy.

 

Alicia:

He said one word-

 

Lisa:

[inaudible 00:37:25] seeds.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. He said, “You ought to go to Northwestern,” but your number one value, like Eileen said, was follow up, follow through.

 

Lisa:

Yeah. That’s funny. I’d never thought about it that way before.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Eileen:

Well, and one small act of kindness.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Lisa:

Right.

 

Eileen:

One small act of kindness. That’s what moves mountains, is a lot of small acts of kindness.

 

Lisa:

That led to so much. That enabled me ultimately to… As my parents got older and needed healthcare and everything else, that enabled me to take care of them for the rest of their lives and able to take care of myself, it changed our family’s whole direction.

 

Alicia:

You’re a giver. You are a natural giver. You’re are a natural giver.

 

Lisa:

I feel like I’ve been… I just feel lucky. And so when you look at the world, especially, you don’t know it, again, until you get older and you look around and you think of yourself in the context of the whole world, being in America, being white, having the privileges that I do, being in Chicago, being… all these things, [crosstalk 00:38:46] so grateful. Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Eileen:

Yeah. That’s just part about, when you talk about grateful and gratitude, we feel the same, Alicia and I. We work full-time, went to school at night, and we look back and we’re just saying, we’re so grateful every day for every breath.

 

Alicia:

Yes. Every day, I just say, “Oh God just thank you,” you know?

 

Eileen:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

 

Lisa:

I think it’s the secret really to happiness, is to be grateful, because… And it also is just funny that it’s also a trick I use when I have insomnia at night, I go through people in my head of all that I’m grateful. Because sometimes it’s not insomnia, if you’re worried about something or your mind is spinning, you’re worried about the next day or something. And I go through my head, and I think about… I just go down the list, starting with family members and their extended family members and my friends and my coworkers, everybody I know that is in my life. And I think about, “Oh, I’m so glad that I have my sister-in-law, Gloria, and my daughter, Amanda, and my son, Alec, and my niece and my nephew and their children and their boyfriends, you know?

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Lisa:

Just go through all that. And it helps to go to sleep.

 

Alicia:

Yes, yes.

 

Eileen:

Yeah. Not counting sheep, but counting blessings or counting gratitude.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Lisa:

Yeah, yeah.

 

Eileen:

That’s phenomenal. I like that. I’m going to try that one. Thank you, Lisa. That’s a wonderful tip.

 

Alicia:

Yeah, good tip. Lisa, I always say this, time flies when you’re having a great conversation with people, and I am certainly enjoying the time with you. But as we begin to end, think about some words of wisdom that you would like to leave with our listeners.

 

Lisa:

I would say that, and again, I always think this one, is when you have kids, you’re always trying to give them wisdom and tell them things, but it’s always just keep moving forward. And what I mean by that is even when you’re not… To me, it’s more important than you take this step, then which direction or that you’re sure it’s the right… You just keep moving forward. You can always pivot. Nothing you do is a loss. Everything you do is just more; more education, more friendships, everything is more if you move forward. And by moving forward, of course, I don’t… Sometimes people ask me about brokerage, because it’s a hard business to succeed in. What’s the one quality? Or whatever.

 

Lisa:

And for me, one of the main qualities in brokerage is persistence. And that’s part of moving forward, but it’s not like… It’s also not blind moving forward. So when you move forward, if you keep doing something, I feel, for a good amount of time and it continues to prove to you that you’re getting nowhere by doing that, you don’t keep doing that, but you make a change. It doesn’t have to be a big change. It is a little pivot. And then you do that for a while. See how that goes. And that doesn’t work either. You make a little pivot here, a little pivot there, and I think… But you just keep moving forward and that would be my biggest piece of advice: move forward. Don’t stay stagnant, and keep trying to think how to be… For me, it’s always how to be an interesting person. I don’t want to be… I want to be somebody I would like to meet, you know?

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Lisa:

And somebody I would like to spend time with. I didn’t feel comfortable about that way always, because I didn’t always… I never had time in my life to pursue hobbies and passions, and I just was more driven and focused in a certain way. And in a way you get stale and you don’t become that interesting. But that takes work and it takes courage and effort, but I think it’s worthwhile to become an interesting person and make it intentional.

 

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on Soul of a Leader podcast. We are knighting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders, who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.