Alicia:

Hello, and welcome to the “Soul of a Leader” podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. In today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen talk with Sawsan Zakaria to discuss leading with no limits.

 

Eileen:

Hello and welcome to “Soul of a Leader.” On today’s show, our guest is Sawsan Zakaria. Sawsan is 27 years old. She lives in LA and she works at Apple. She’s a content creator, an actor, a model, and she went to Illinois State University for broadcast journalism. She loves happy hours, socializing, and is a huge foodie. She volunteers at camp. And she’s a committee chairman for the Association of Horizon, a summer camp for adults with physical disabilities. Welcome, Sawsan. How are you today?

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

I am wonderful. Thank you guys so much for having me. I’m very excited to be here and excited to share my way of life.

 

Alicia:

Well, welcome, Sawsan. I love that last name . Zakaria. It reminds me of a chapter in the Bible. I am so excited to have you on “Soul of a Leader” today.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Thank you. So Zakaria is actually my middle name. It’s also my dad’s name. It’s very cultural in my culture. I’m Palestinian. I grew up Muslim and it’s very cultural to have your dad’s name as your middle name.

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

So I and my brother have my dad’s name as our middle name.

 

Alicia:

Interesting. Wow. So, Dr. Eileen read your bio and I love that you’re a model, and then you create content. Is there anything else that you would like to mention about your bio that wasn’t mentioned when Eileen read it out?

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah, so that summer camp that Eileen did mention, I actually was the president of, for a small amount of time. It’s a summer camp that is near and dear to my heart. I’ve been going to this camp for about 10 years now. I was the president for one year, but when I moved to LA, I kind of needed a little bit of a reset of my life. So kind of just took a little bit of a step back, missed it. And then now I’m back and volunteering again with the board to plan camp again.

 

Eileen:

Well, that is exciting. So tell me a little bit about LA because you’re working with the Association of Horizon, but I want to share that I’ve known Sawsan for years. Okay. And she lived in Chicago and she’s probably so happy to be in LA with beautiful, warm weather. And tell me a little bit about how you lead with acting and modeling and how you go about doing it, because it’s a tough industry to get into.

 

Alicia:

Oh, yes.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah. So ever since I was little, I always wanted to be on TV, and you can always see in the home videos or on any pictures, I ruined candid shots because I can always see where the camera is. I will always look at it. I will always pose. And when I was a teenager, I started blogging and realize that a lot of people can relate to my words in the sense of what it’s like living with a disability. And I also started to realize that able-bodied people don’t know what it’s like living with a disability. They have this idea and it’s often misrepresented in the media and I have this way with words that allows people to understand what it’s like in my shoes. So I’m educating them and kind of giving them perspective that they might not have thought of, or why would they have to think of it?

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Why do you have to think about taking a step off the curb if you can take a step off the curb? And I started to realize that. And so it made me want to write more and talk more on the subject. And the older I got, I started to realize that there were a lot of people with disabilities that agree with me, but may not have a loud enough voice to say anything or do anything about it. And they just kind of stay complacent where they are because they feel like, what’s the point and society are not listening to me. And society has this way of thinking of me and they don’t know what to do about it, where to start.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

And so, I wanted to kind of bring back my childhood dream and started wanting to pursue it and realize that I could use that platform and that dream, not only to accomplish my dreams and get where I want to go but then at the same time, educate society on what it’s really like to live with a disability and not be often misrepresented in the media. Instead, I can represent myself and change the way that society does see people with disabilities.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

And that was kind of a big driver to me. And I just kind of felt like… Before I moved to LA as I grew up in Chicago, born and raised in Chicago, and I felt stuck for a very long time. And I met Eileen at the job I was working at and she was a mentor to me and I still do think of you as a mentor.

 

Eileen:

Good.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

And I appreciate every bit of wisdom you shared with me, and I appreciate you so much. And I started to basically realize that there was something, I guess, not holding me back, but as I said, I felt stuck, and I felt like the only way to get out of this stuck plateau feeling in my life was to move to LA.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

I realized I might not have been ready at the time, not having much of an acting resume and things under my belt. And then I was going in a little bit blind, but I needed a restart. I needed a reset. I was at a point in my life where I was leaving to go to work at 8:00 in the morning, coming home at 10:00 at night, every single night. Because I was working two jobs, taking classes at Second City, like this, that, and the other, but then realized that none of them had anything to do with goals and what I really wanted to do in my life. And so I was like, I just, I need to move now. For everything, it was kind of like, I need to wait until I have this much money or I used to wait until I have this many things accomplished. And then I kind of sat there and I was like, well, four years later, I’m still not where I thought I was going to be and still broke. What’s the difference between being broke in LA and being broke in Chicago? So I decided to move.

 

Alicia:

You know what? I like that point, Swasan. Sawsan. What’s the difference? It’s just geographically, you just in a different location.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

But I liked something that you realized about what you needed to do. And sometimes some people often have to just go ahead and do it. Because if you just let it linger on, sometimes you just won’t make that happen. And so, I want to ask a question because I like also, you talked about your creativity and you’re very creative and your voice, and you wanted your voice to be heard through people throughout the world about the feeling of what your life is and for others that may have similar situations like you. To describe some values that you may have that really kind of gave you that urge to want to speak about what it feels to be in your situation.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

That’s a good question. Between my optimism, persistence, and pride, I think those are the top values that I have that drives me every single day. And I think it’s what gives me the confidence to be that microphone for people that have stage fright.

 

Eileen:

That is wonderful. And so, people have stage fright no matter who you are, many people have it. Your vision on how you arrived, where you’re at presently, took time. But most of all, what I heard and what I saw was courage, huge courage to just say, “I’m doing this, I’m following my passion and I’m going to act on it.” Those are leadership attributes. And so, tell me how you use those attributes to pump up others with your voice. You do it in your blog, but tell me how otherwise you do it.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

I think that in my everyday life, a couple of things that I can think of off the top of my head is that personal assistance. Me being in a wheelchair means that I rely on people every single day to get out of bed. And get in and out of bed, shower, change, this, that and the other. And that makes me a natural-born leader. I think because in that sense you are your own boss. No one is going to come knocking at my door and ask me if I need help.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

I have to find these people. I have to make sure they stick around. I have to create relationships with people and finding them is difficult. There are a lot of people with disabilities and I realize that I’m in a very lucky, privileged situation to be in, to be able to live independently is incredible. And not only that but move across the country, add that on top of it.

 

Eileen:

Yes.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

I started to realize when I moved here that I don’t give myself enough credit. I moved across the country by myself. Granted, I took two of my friends with me, but still and…

 

Alicia:

That’s always a plus when you can bring friends with you.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Oh, yeah. I wouldn’t be anywhere without them. I have to give them credit. But in general, just having personal assistance means that I have to lead and I have to speak every day of what my needs are, what I need to live a healthy daily life, whether that’s just getting out of bed, for some people that have the ability to get out of bed doesn’t have the drive to get out of bed. So, me finding these people, helping them, having them help me get out of bed. It’s me who has this understanding of communicating with people, working with them, what works, what doesn’t, and at the end of the day, how it affects my mental health.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

So I’ve had situations where I’ve had people help me get in and out of bed, but they might not have been the best person to do it. And in the end, then it was affecting my mental health in a negative way. And so, being able to understand, that took me years. I think I’m at the point now in my life, in the last couple of years, that I’ve been able to recognize how much the two go together, and how much having certain personal assistance and where their headspace is will deeply affect my mental space and how productive I am in my daily life.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. That is really key because if their mental space is not connecting with where you are, it could be a huge factor and it can weigh heavily on you. So, that to me is a very good leadership quality to have, because you have to have some understanding of what your needs are and what their expectations are, and how can they combine together to really, the outcome is to help you, to support you, because ultimately, that’s why your assistants are there. And so I liked that.

 

Alicia:

Also, like you brought out a point. For the average person, some people are able to just get out the bed and think nothing of it. And like you said, it takes a team almost or supports for you to get out the bed or for your next step. And so, that’s huge to kind of bring that tone out when you’re writing or when you’re blogging. Because the reality is, people have to understand if you can do this, if you have to go through that every day, then nothing is impossible for you because it takes courage to leave another state, go across the world almost, to LA and do something courageous and acting and modeling, understanding that the impact that you can have on others to see you.

 

Alicia:

So I think that’s just rewarding in itself. So, and I said all that to ask you a question. So, what are some, or a story that you would like to share that really just put a smile on your face when after you moved to LA to say, “I’m glad I did this,” what moment? Because again, that was courageous. You had a lot of factors that you had to deal with. You got up and you did it. And you got there. And what moment after being there to say, “I’m glad I did it”?

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Oh, wow. That’s a great question. I love that question. When I first moved to LA, I had a friend connect me with an agent. And my agent decided to meet with me, which, finding an agent, in general, is half the battle.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

And so I met with my agent right when I moved here, and gratefully was able… She agreed to meet with me and she stalked my life before meeting me. And she knew everything. She’s like, “I saw this on your website. And I saw… I know the work you’re doing,” and this and that.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Eileen:

And I saw the Target ad that you did.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

And yeah.

 

Eileen:

And I’ve seen your portfolio. I’m just going to plug for you here. Go, go, go.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah. So, doing that was definitely an aha moment for me because she had, like I said, stalked my life, knew everything about me before I walked in the room. And she was like, “I don’t want…” She represents people with disabilities. Her name is Gail at KMR. She’s amazing. Basically, she said that she doesn’t want to represent me just because I have a disability. She sees that I’m doing the work. And she sees something in me and that’s why she agreed to represent me. And that made me feel really great, especially just having moved to LA, and this is kind of the first step to what I think success is in my mind. And it was a really great feeling, just knowing that like… I’m the kind of person that doesn’t give myself credit for the little things, little accomplishments. And they might not have been the biggest gigs or might not have started on a big-time movie. But the fact that I had anything-

 

Alicia:

That’s right.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

…to go for me was enough to get me to the next step of where I got to go. And that was a real telltale sign of that, that I was on the right track.

 

Alicia:

And she did her work as an agent.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Oh, that’s true.

 

Alicia:

Yes! She knew everything about you.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

And not only that, it was like, my work is paying off.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

That’s what it felt like.

 

Alicia:

Yes. And that’s exactly what it was. It was your work being paid off for you. Yeah.

 

Eileen:

And Sawsan, we all start out small. Right?

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

That’s right, yeah.

 

Eileen:

And those baby steps come into big steps.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah.

 

Eileen:

So all I say is, you’re moving forward and you keep moving forward and it keeps going. So, tell me a little bit about this. We’ve talked about your acting. I do want to ask you about your blog and where people can find your blog site on the internet. And then I want to talk a little bit about your volunteer work. So where can people read your blog?

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

So I don’t blog as much anymore. Honestly, I use my Instagram like a blog.

 

Eileen:

Oh, okay. Let’s do that. Where can they find you?

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

My Instagram is @sawsanzakaria_. So S-A-W-S-A-N-Z-A-K-A-R-I-A underscore.

 

Eileen:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

So, that’s where I do most of my vlogging. Honestly, right now I’m actually working on a vlog. So I do a vlog every week. We have new episodes every Wednesday. It’s called 2 Peas in a Placard or 2peasshow. So on Instagram at number two P-E-A-S show, and it’s with my friend, I do it. Her name is Lila Hart. And it’s pretty much, she has a disability called spina bifida, and she can walk. And it’s so interesting how we have connected our lives because we always say like… I always say, she’s the walking version of me. So, 2 Peas started… We’re in quarantine, we’re feeling very depressed and unmotivated, and not really getting our… She’s a comedian. She was on stage every week and wasn’t able to do that anymore due to the pandemic. And we were in this very, kind of dark hole and we kind of connected and we were like, “Let’s start vlogging.”

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

We want to kind of show people that we, yes, we have disabilities and there’s all these disabled influencers everywhere. You see them. But here’s the thing. My life isn’t always disability. We’re on the podcast right now. And if I didn’t tell you guys, I have spinal muscular atrophy and I’m in a wheelchair, you would’ve gone this entire podcast not knowing I’m in a wheelchair. Because it’s not relevant to my life until I need somebody to help me get out of bed. Do you know what I mean? It’s not something that I’m talking about 24/7. It’s a part of my life absolutely. But it’s not in every single conversation and everything that I do. It’s just a part of my life. Just like whatever’s going on in their life, it’s a part of my life, but it’s not something that I’m constantly talking about 24/7.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

And so our vlog is basically showing that we have our daily lives, we’re cooking together. We’re answering questions. We’re laughing, we’re joking, we’re playing games together, and not every video is… So it basically shows us living in our normal lives. And sometimes if you’re lucky, a little bit of disability discussion comes up.

 

Eileen:

Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us. I’m looking forward to following it. So 2 Peas, I didn’t know about that one. Thanks for sharing. Now, tell us a little bit about how you landed your nonprofit as president.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah. So this is for the Association of Horizon. It’s based in the Chicagoland area. It’s a summer camp for adults with physical disabilities. And I was a camper there for one year, and then I realized that I want to camp all year round. And so, I was like, “What can I do outside of camp to do that?” And there were planning activities. And so, throughout the year after camp ends, they start planning for the next year, and fundraising, and doing all these things to make sure camp happens every year. And then I climbed up to become the chairman of the camp committee, which is planning the entire week. And then I was on the board of directors. Then it started getting into let’s plan fundraisers and things like that. So one of the year’s, one of the presidents, she was stepping down because she was pregnant.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

And so, I decided to kind of throw my name. And actually, I was nominated to be the president. And one thing that I was super grateful for about this camp is that they include everyone in the sense of, sure there are organizations that serve people with disabilities, but they don’t include the people with disabilities in their leadership in the sense of they’re not on the board, they’re not team leaders. They’re not in a position of leadership because they’re known as the person that is served, that is being served. And so that’s one thing that I loved. So I ended up being the first president with a physical disability of this camp, which is amazing.

 

Alicia:

Yes. I was just saying that. Now, that’s amazing.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah. And people saw that I had this leadership ability because I was already leading the camp committee for X amount of times. And they saw that, all the whole camp, everyone knows who I am, and I’m very talkative, and I can take on the work, and I do the work. And of course, my heart is in the right place for the organization. And people saw that and people voted. People got what they wanted. So yeah, it was great. I did it for one year. And like I said after that year is when I moved to LA and decided to step down and just kind of do a big reset of my life.

 

Alicia:

But I can tell just talking with you, you like to get the work done. And through your work brings out great joy for you. The commitment is there. Certainly, the passion is there. And importantly, naturally, you are a leader and oftentimes people will say, “Are you born a leader? Or can leaders be made?” But I can certainly see that you are a born leader because the things that you take on to do, come naturally to you because there’s something on the inside of you that gives you that urge to want to get it done. And to be the president of an association like that for the first time is simply amazing. So, love that.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Thank you. Yeah. Being the president was very… It meant a lot to me. As I said, it was very hard. I definitely took on a role. It was a big role, of course.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

There was a lot that I didn’t know going into it. And I’m glad that I had the mentors that I had at that time. That got me through it. And I was given very great feedback from members of the board of how well and poised and well, great I did in that time. And it was an incredible experience and I would definitely do it again. I’m still a part of the organization. I’m the chairman of the camp committee again. After a year of not doing it, I felt very, had FOMO.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

[crosstalk 00:25:13] Get back in there and do it. And so I jumped back in and now I’m the chairman of activity of the camp committee. And I had a couple of people that were like, “I’m really glad that you’re doing it again because we miss you.”

 

Alicia:

They missed you, right.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah.

 

Eileen:

Well, Sawsan, the time has just flown. It doesn’t seem like we’ve talked for this long, but we always ask if you could share some words of wisdom with us and our listeners.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah. So I mean, my words of wisdom is you miss 100% of the shots you don’t shoot and I’m a true believer that everything happens for a reason. And if you’re sitting there saying, “I want to do this,” but you’re not proactively doing something, how do you expect to get there? And if you fail, then you know what, you’re going to end up somewhere else. And maybe you were meant to be there and didn’t know you were going to be there. If you didn’t fail the first time.

 

Alicia:

I love that. I was taking notes.

 

Eileen:

Sawsan, that’s perfect. It’s like blessings or lessons. But the topper is if you don’t have the courage to try and take that shot, what happens? Frank, what’s wrong with not taking the shot? Take it!

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah. Great. I could say so many more things on this topic that I didn’t even realize the time has flown because I have so many more topics on-

 

Eileen:

Well, share! Share a couple more things. We have some time. Could share a couple more things on that topic. Tell us about a shot.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

A shot? I mean, moving to LA.

 

Eileen:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. That was your biggest shot. But see, I think that’s a slam dunk for you. I mean, because come on, you move from one side of the world to another, and then you get your agent.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

It’s like a slam dunk.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

It feels like that. And it’s so wild because when I moved here, I was just talking about this to my roommate today. When I moved here, it killed my confidence. LA is a different species. And in Chicago, everyone knew me. I was like this confident, outspoken person, all this stuff. And I moved to LA and it’s like a different kind of confidence, I didn’t realize I didn’t have. It tears you apart, eats you alive. And rebuilding that was so interesting. And I think part of it was four months into my move, we’re in lockdown. So it was an interesting year to move. And I think it was kind of perfect timing because I wouldn’t be in LA if I didn’t move when I did, because of the lockdown.

 

Eileen:

Right.

 

Alicia:

Good point.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

So four months into my move, I think that’s another aha moment, now that I think about it. I would probably be stuck in Chicago doing… I don’t even know what I would be doing. I think about that all the time. I would be probably living at home with my mom and I don’t want to be doing that.

 

Eileen:

Well, the timing, I mean, just think of the timing, then you took the courage to do it. And I mean, you’re right. If you would have waited four months, you maybe couldn’t have moved.

 

Alicia:

Right. It would have been… Yeah, totally probably different. Oh, timing is everything. Timing and God makes no mistakes on that. It’s just amazing. That is an aha moment for you. Because had you waited a day or week or month later, you wouldn’t have ever been ever be talking about how you met the agent.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Because you would have been here in Chicago with us freezing.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Yeah. And I wouldn’t have the YouTube channel that I have now.

 

Alicia:

Great.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

I wouldn’t have the agent that I have now. I wouldn’t be making the content that I am now. Grateful for the gigs that I’ve gotten. I’m grateful for the people that I have in my circle, which I think is a really big part of people’s success is the people that you have around you, that I have. They’re the most supportive, positive people I’ve ever had in my whole life. And I have a very small circle, which is very different. I had a very big circle of people in my life in Chicago. I had a lot of friends. I still have them, but they’re 2,000 miles away.

 

Alicia:

You’re right.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

I learned the hard way, the importance of quality over quantity-

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

…in LA. And so I’m very grateful for every single person that helps me move, get in and out of bed every day, helps me emotionally, mentally, physically, whatever it is, I am so grateful for them because I would not be where I am today without them.

 

Eileen:

Well, and thank you for adding that because that’s what parts of a leader is about, Sawsan.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

You’re leading with your soul. Our “Soul of a Leader” definition is spiritual, authentic, and servant leadership. And you’ve defined that perfectly today.

 

Alicia:

Oh, absolutely.

 

Eileen:

And we want to thank you for your time, your wisdom, your knowledge, your stories, your courage.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Your breaking boundaries and your voice. Most of all, your voice.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Your voice is making a difference.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. And for your commitment to wanting to make your voice heard to get others to understand your life. That’s huge to me. It’s brave of you. It’s courageous like Dr. Eileen said. And really, just the whole approach that you took to say, “You know what? I want to do something different and I need to reset,” but you knew what that was that you wanted to do. And number two, you had already put the work in to be able to address what you wanted to do. Oftentimes, people want to do a reset or want to do something different, but they haven’t put the work in to be able to address that. So, I would say kudos to you for that. Continue to be the leader that you are because your light is shining so bright that I really need to put sunglasses on, girl.

 

Eileen:

That’s what I was going to say, keep shining your light, your joy, your gratitude, your love. I’m going to say love because-

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

…that’s what it is too.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

So thank you, Sawsan.

 

Alicia:

Yes. And it’s very great of you to even give homage to your friends, your circle. That’s huge too, to be so grateful for your circle. So keep up the great work.

 

Sawsan Zakaria:

Thank you. I would be nothing without them. They are my support system, my backbone. My, not only because they’re physically helping me get out of bed, there are other reasons too, but yes, I have to give them some credit.

 

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on the “Soul of a Leader” podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.