Eileen:

Hello, and welcome to Soul of A Leader Podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. In today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen talk with Janica Campbell to discuss the four Cs on leading.

 

Alicia:

Welcome to Soul of A Leader Podcast. In today’s episode, we have Janica Campbell. She’s an attorney, she’s a native of New York. She considers herself the entrepreneur’s entrepreneur. Janica opened her law firm in 2007 with the vision of establishing a skillful full-service legal firm that was small enough to care yet big enough to get the job done. It is of the utmost importance to her to take a genuine interest in every client, understand their objectives and zealously strive to meet and exceed their expectations. One of the important things about her bio, she has a four C approach. Janica does two things, a couple of things, client-centered counsel, competent legal representation, clear and concise communication, collaborative and creative approach to legal matters. Welcome to Soul of A Leader Podcast, Janica.

 

Eileen:

Welcome.

 

Janica Campbell:

Thank you. Thank you, ladies. Thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here.

 

Eileen:

Well, Alicia did a great job with your intro, but is there anything you’d like to add that we may have missed or shared with us?

 

Janica Campbell:

Well, yeah. Thank you, Alicia, for that intro. And the only thing I’d add is yes, I do have a full-service legal firm. I primarily focus on areas of personal injury and business law. Again, I consider myself to be the entrepreneur’s entrepreneur. So, my heart is really in with people investing in themselves and is a no better investment than in yourself [crosstalk 00:02:10].

 

Alicia:

Absolutely. Yeah.

 

Janica Campbell:

… So yeah. Thank you for that intro.

 

Eileen:

Well, with that, it’s great to hear there’s no better interest than people investing in themselves. And as you lead your firm and as you lead your clients, how do you align that with purpose or values when you coach people or even yourself?

 

Janica Campbell:

So for me, I think everything starts with mindset and that may sound a little odd coming from the legal perspective because a lot of times people think it’s just transactional. However, for my clients, particularly the business clients and even some of the personal injury ones, it’s important for people to understand the direction that they want to go in, but making sure that that direction is in alignment with their values. So for instance, if you’re coming to me as an entrepreneur or as a business owner, you may want to do one thing, but we need to have that discussion to make sure on the long end that it is in alignment with your values. So I do come from a place of mindset. I’ve done a lot of work in that area. I am fascinated with the brain and neuroscience. So, I just try to intertwine that with my legal practice and the people that work for me and myself on a daily basis.

 

Alicia:

We’re smiling because it’s like later on in our episodes, we always talk about values because we have value cards. And so the audience can’t see, my face went like bright because you are so right. Dr. Eileen and I, we in HR and we do a lot of coaching. And so we use a lot of the value cards and even a part of the mission statement I put in there. Your values need to be aligned with your business. Your values need to be aligned with some of your personal decisions. And so with that, talk about your top five values that a lot of the times you may see yourself connecting to some of the decisions or even some of the clients that you may serve and help. So what are your top five?

 

Janica Campbell:

I will say, number one is integrity. I think what you do and who you are when no one else is looking, that is important. So, integrity would definitely be number one. I think having a sense of gratitude is always important. I think everything starts with being thankful and grateful. I would say honesty. I would put that just part of my profession. It’s important to be straightforward and honest with clients and not… Sometimes you’re telling them things that they may not want to hear, but that they need to hear, and walking them through that. Another, I would say would be an encouragement. I think more often than not, people are struggling with something. And if you can kind of tap into whatever that is just by simply listening and offering some words of wisdom or encouragement, I think it goes a long way with people, and people appreciate that. I’ve had clients that have been with me for 10 years for a variety of different issues and no matter what, they trust that I’m coming from a good place. And I think it comes from just offering those words of encouragement from them.

 

Janica Campbell:

And I would say another important value for me is one of a consummate learner. I think it’s important to always, always be learning. You just can’t go wrong with that. I tell people all of the time, books are some of my favorite things because for some people it has taken them a lifetime to write a book and they put all of that knowledge and poured so much into that book, and you can gain all of the insight and information that it took them a lifetime to acquire in however long it takes you to read that book, be it a hardcover book or even through something like Audible. So, I would say those are my top five values, but values run deep, so.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

[crosstalk 00:06:21].

 

Eileen:

Thank you so much for sharing. And the one that really hit me was listening. As a leader today, there’s a quote that I’ve read and it’s, “Listen and silent have the same letters.” Right?

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

And with that as a leader, role-modeling that listening behavior versus some people when they’re talking to you, they’re already thinking about their response. And what you shared was that listening, you deeply listen to your clients. How did you build that skill? How did you build that skill as a leader? Because I think that’s one that servant leaders use all the time. And as a soul of a leader, we use servant, spiritual and authentic leadership. Share with us how you thought you built those skills?

 

Janica Campbell:

So, as I mentioned, I read a lot. And so, in so many of these books that I read, it continuously brings you back to that. And then just quite candidly, having been on the other side of that, where if I’m speaking and Eileen you’re exactly right. Most people are already formulating the response or trying to solve a problem and perhaps it’s not even a problem for you, perhaps you are just speaking or just wanting somebody to hear what you’re saying. So I just realized the importance of being like the empathetic listener, and I’m going to listen and I’ll ask before I even offer advice because perhaps you just needed to get it off your chest, perhaps this was cathartic for you. So, I’m going to give you the opportunity to do that. And most times, what I have found is most people already know what the problem may be, and they just need someone to validate their feeling, validate that they hear what they’re saying. So, I think it’s twofold, just reading a lot and acquiring just knowledge from other people.

 

Janica Campbell:

And then being on the other side, just where it’s very clear that you were not listening to me or you’re trying to solve a problem. And I haven’t asked for a solution. And so, I’ve acquired it that way.

 

Eileen:

Thank you.

 

Janica Campbell:

You’re welcome.

 

Alicia:

A lot of the things I’m listening to, and I heard at the beginning or mid part of last year, the CEO, Jamie Diamond of JPMorgan Chase. And then I heard in an interview or something was Shark Tank, Cuban, Mark Cuban, and then TD Jakes. And that was in a span of like 30 days. What they do every day is take time out to read. And I’m like, “Well…” And I was doing that too, but I didn’t know the extent to how valuable that was. And so, I’m a quick reader. So, I can read these four-minute articles and these two-minute articles or 10-minute articles. But for [inaudible 00:09:41] read 15 to 20 articles. So when you talk about you read a lot, what type of books do you read? Do you sit and read novels or are you a quick… Need a quick read here and there, what type of things are you reading?

 

Janica Campbell:

So, I believe you should try to read everything you can get your hands on, but for me right now, I really do, but I’m in this space… Again, I love the brain. And so neuroscience… If I weren’t a lawyer, I would have been a doctor and quite candidly, the cadavers kept me out of that. I just, [crosstalk 00:10:13]. I could not fathom how people go to school, knowing, “I’m going to cut the skin off this and put it in a bucket.” That just was not my thing. So, I would have been a doctor, but just kind of kept me out. So, I read a lot about self-improvement. I read a lot of leadership books, anything that I feel is going to enhance a particular skill that I’m trying to acquire, and really the way that I see it is I don’t read everything, it doesn’t mean that I agree with it all. It doesn’t mean that I’m going to implement it all.

 

Janica Campbell:

However, when I do read and I do come across something that I find intriguing, or that resonates with me, my goal is always to implement it immediately, because to me having the knowledge… You can read all you want and you get all this information, you have all this knowledge, but if you don’t put it into practice if you are not doing something, what’s the point? To me, it’s worse than now you know and you’re not even taking action.

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Janica Campbell:

With the reading comes implementation as well. But yeah, that’s great. I have some friends who say, “I don’t have time to read,” and it’s like, “Well, you have time to scroll through social media.”

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Janica Campbell:

And here’s the thing, Audible. Like I told you, I just flew to Boston. I “read” like two hours and it’s great information, you can take notes on the app now. It is a game-changer. And I do read every day, I actually follow a routine every day and it is life-changing and if I skip something, I feel the difference. So again, you should learn something new every day. And again, whether maybe learning something new is, “Yeah, that doesn’t really work for me.” You still learn that that didn’t work for you.

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Janica Campbell:

But reading, I would encourage everybody, even if it’s only 10 minutes a day, to pick up something and read. And read something that perhaps, maybe you didn’t think you were interested in and you’re going to find some golden nuggets in those books or if there are people that you really like or people that resonate with you, or are in a position in life that you aspire to be, read those books because they’re dropping gems. And again, what took them years or a lifetime to learn, they are sharing this with you and you can get it in the time it takes for you to finish that book.

 

Eileen:

Oh, I really liked that summary. What I heard is like, and this happens is you’re a lifelong learner.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Right? A lifelong learner and it really does matter the target of what you’re reading. And the same thing, I had a friend that they couldn’t read and then, but they’re reading on Facebook about every other person, people, people, people, people. And I always say, “Let’s not talk about people. Let’s talk about ideas.” And that’s what you were saying is that you’re reading to learn, but also to [inaudible 00:13:32] on ideas that you’re understanding as you’re reading.

 

Janica Campbell:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

And with that, can you share any story that you may have where you have stretched your leadership skills or were inspired or had an aha moment at some point in your life when you’re like, “Oh, yeah. Now I get it.” Feel free to share a story?

 

Janica Campbell:

I can. So, it’s so interesting to me. And as I look back and reflect on it, it’s just like, “Why didn’t I see that?” So, in my reading, one of the things I came across was how important it is to be intentional with your time and schedule. So, being the person that I am, and again, remember I dubbed myself, the entrepreneur’s entrepreneur, and one reason for that is because I value my autonomy to the [inaudible 00:14:34]. And I used to feel like, “Well, I’m not going to operate as if I were going to a job,” because I’m not. I’m in control, then I’m in control of my time and I’m going to do what I want to do when I want to do it. And so, I would had this kind of laissez-faire attitude, I’d get things done, but it wasn’t until through my reading, I’ve learned like, being very intentional with your time.

 

Janica Campbell:

If you make a schedule and you put some times on it, “Hey, I’m going to read for one hour, and then I’m going to work on this client’s file for two hours, whatever that schedule is, I’m going to work out whatever it is.” First of all, whatever doesn’t get scheduled, typically doesn’t get done because it’s not a priority, right? But in doing that, I realized that “Wait for a second, I’m actually in control of my time, where my attitude before it was like, no, I’m not going to do that because I’m not in control and that schedule is controlling me,” but to really do it and then have the insight that I’m definitely in control of my time. I decided that I am going to read for this hour. And then I followed through. And then it’s the small wins as well that we need to keep going. So, I think for me, that was a major aha moment. The freedom comes in being disciplined.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

Because now I’m freed up to do some other things because I’ve gotten these things done according to the way I wanted to do it. So, where schedules used to look to me as if I was boxing myself in, now it’s a sense of freedom.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. Yeah. And you probably felt like… Because I like to have organizations… So for me, when I put that on my calendar, for me, I’m committing myself to read at seven in the morning and I’ll say, “It’s on my calendar, always two to three articles every day.” And so that’s a commitment that makes… It doesn’t make me feel like it’s taken over. It gives me that parameter of some discipline and control to say, You know you need to do this.” So, it’s like a part of life. And so, that’s kind of what I hear you saying is now you understand, “Well, it really wasn’t taking over me. I really do have the control.” And it’s giving you more intentional as a leader to say, “I’m being very intentional with my time,” which [crosstalk 00:17:04].

 

Eileen:

It’s like a gift you are giving yourself.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

Absolutely. And the gift is-

 

Alicia:

Yes, I love that gift.

 

Janica Campbell:

… Absolutely. And the gift is following through with my values, because if I value being a leader, then I am going to-

 

Alicia:

I love that.

 

Janica Campbell:

… show characteristics of a leader, of a learner. And when I read, I am following through with that. I am being true to who I am. And every day when I do it, I am just building upon that. And it leaves itself to, “Yes, I really am a learner.” Or, “Yes, I really do get healthy because I exercise daily.”

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

So, it’s those small wins that… Those little incremental things make major changes and major accomplishments, so yeah.

 

Alicia:

Yes. Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

That’s what it is.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. And it’s just like it just gives you those aha moments. You could be by yourself like, “No, this really is making sense.”

 

Janica Campbell:

Yeah. Right. Again, I used to feel like, “I’m not going to box myself in with this schedule.” And then when I started doing it, it’s like, I get so much done because I have written it down and I don’t feel overwhelmed because I’m not going to have a to-do list with 30 items, right?

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Janica Campbell:

Because really, are you going to get through 30 items? And whatever I don’t get through, it gets carried on to the next day, but there’s always a sense of accomplishment. I have always done what I said I was going to do. And again, if you’re in alignment with your values, those things are going to get done because that’s just who you are and or who you’re becoming. So, I think that’s just really important. So for me, that was a major aha moment and I couldn’t help but think, “Oh, my goodness, how much time have I wasted?” Trying to be “free.”

 

Alicia:

When you really weren’t free.

 

Janica Campbell:

Absolutely. And then I’d feel terrible that “Oh my goodness, I didn’t finish everything,” because I forgot half of the stuff because it wasn’t written down. So yes. There’s freedom in the discipline.

 

Alicia:

Yes, yes. Yeah. So, how would you describe your leadership style?

 

Janica Campbell:

I would say, I lead by example. And it’s very interesting to me because people would always come back and just kind of regurgitate or repeat things that I’ve said, or they may notice certain things in me. For instance, my best friend, I have always been averse to the scheduling thing and so when I say to her, “I’m going to have to get off the phone in the next five minutes because I’ve committed to reading for this period of time.” And it’s a very regular thing. No one’s offended, but if you value me, you’re going to value my time and I’m showing you that I value me and I value my time because I’ve committed to doing something else. So I lead by example and I’ve seen for her now, she even does the same thing to me. It is like, “Well, can you just send me your schedule so I won’t even bother or call you during that time.

 

Janica Campbell:

But, yeah. Leading by example, I just like to be able to share information and be a resource for people without the kind of shoving it down their throats. And people notice good things and they notice good characteristics. And most people want to do good. And they just need the information. So, I’m definitely someone that is… I’m a sharer. And I do believe in abundance. There’s enough to go around for everyone. And I get joy and benefit and satisfaction just knowing that I’ve at least shared whatever it is that I may know. You take from it what you feel may benefit you. Leave the rest behind. But I have read those books that maybe you haven’t, and I can save you reading that book so you can get onto another one, then pick some other skills.

 

Eileen:

[inaudible 00:21:20]. As the listeners can’t see you, but Alicia and I can, and this is a question I like to ask you is like, you can see your energy, you can see the flow, the light, right?

 

Janica Campbell:

Yes. The joy. Yeah. yeah [crosstalk 00:21:36].

 

Eileen:

Whatever, the joy. Where does that source come from, if you would like to share that with us? Because each one of us does have a soul, but we also have the personality and the energy. And I can just see it and I just love to know where it came from or comes from?

 

Janica Campbell:

I appreciate that. Thank you so much. This is just who I am. And I think I do walk with a certain sense of confidence and I’m comfortable with who I am. I am grateful and I’ve done some work. I’ve read a lot, and so I am truly living in alignment with who I am and more importantly, who I want to become.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

Who I am right now it’s who I am right now. However, I want to be better and I will be better. And so again, I just try to embody the characteristics then, the attitude of who I want to become. And I just walk in that. I live in that and I am who I say I am. And think that there’s a certain level of comfort.

 

Eileen:

And I heard you say is, it takes work.

 

Janica Campbell:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

I’m not the same person I was 10 years ago, right? And I wouldn’t want to be because I want to grow and live and learn and love and do all this. But sometimes people look at people with your energy or our energy and say, “Oh my gosh.” It takes work. It takes learning. It takes education. It takes putting the oxygen mask on yourself first to put the barriers, the boundaries up saying, “Okay, I can only do this.” But it takes work. It really does.

 

Janica Campbell:

I once heard someone say, “Nothing works unless you do.” Yeah. I don’t care what you read, what you watch, what you think. If you are not implementing, what good is it? You have to do the work-

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

… with anything and with everything.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

You have to do the work. And some work will be more difficult than other types of work. But the beauty is in the process, right? Like the journey that you go through to get to where you want to go or to reach that goal, that’s the work, that space and there’s real beauty in that. And again, once you get through that, then you set another goal and there is some more work to do. But that’s life, right? We’re here for a certain amount of time. No one knows what that is, but during that time, what else do you have to do? If you’re not working [crosstalk 00:24:36].

 

Alicia:

Right. If you are not working on yourself, right?

 

Janica Campbell:

Like there shouldn’t be… You’re going to be doing something, probably not investing in yourself and investing in yourself, you can then share with others. And when you’re no longer here, whatever knowledge, information, insight, joy, attitude, whatever you have left here can resonate and carry on through someone else that you’ve touched, so.

 

Alicia:

I want to ask you a question. As I was reading your bio and I want to get to this because I’m kind of intrigued by the four C approach.

 

Janica Campbell:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

So, I wanted to know what makes you come up with it? Because as I’m talking to you, I just swear. I was just like, “She’s not an attorney because she’s just…” I mean, not that all attorneys are bad or anything.

 

Janica Campbell:

[crosstalk 00:25:29].

 

Alicia:

She is so sweet. Like [inaudible 00:25:40] some of these attorneys. Where did it come from?

 

Janica Campbell:

Oh, boy. Attorneys get such a bad rap.

 

Alicia:

Yes, you guys do. I’m just [crosstalk 00:25:48].

 

Eileen:

Yes, they do.

 

Alicia:

… real on this podcast.

 

Janica Campbell:

[crosstalk 00:25:53]. I’m going to be as real as you can get. [crosstalk 00:25:55].

 

Alicia:

So tell us about the four C approach. What made you think of that? And I’m sure you have to use that format when you’re dealing with people in your clientele.

 

Janica Campbell:

So, again, as an entrepreneur, it’s funny, I’m always trying to do something like what is going to set my firm apart from other firms? Because there are millions of lawyers out here and, again, I practice in two different states, Georgia and Illinois. And the name of my firm is my name. So, Law Offices of Janica L. Campbell. Well, so you may not remember that name. So I wanted something a little more generic or I wanted to implement something a little more generic that people would remember. So, I was playing with the idea of changing the name of my firm. And I was thinking of something with a diamond. I just wanted something that if people see a diamond, I want you to think of Janica. And so, when I thought about diamonds, I thought about the strength, right? Because diamonds, can be masculine or feminine, but I’m a female. So, I’m a strong female. But to me, a diamond represents strength, right?

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Janica Campbell:

It’s one of the hardest substances in the world. And I said, “Well when you think of diamonds, people usually judge them on the four Cs. So, I just basically played on that and then came up with-

 

Alicia:

Interesting.

 

Janica Campbell:

… [crosstalk 00:27:28] four Cs. So, that’s how it came.

 

Alicia:

Oh, my God.

 

Eileen:

Very interesting.

 

Alicia:

Interesting.

 

Eileen:

Very, very innovative too-

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Janica Campbell:

Thank you.

 

Eileen:

… and unique. Yeah, that’s great.

 

Janica Campbell:

Thank you. I didn’t end up changing the name of the firm. I kept it my name. Again, I’ve been practicing for over 13 years now. So there was some goodwill and branding that already had been there. If you look at my logo, I do have a few diamonds hidden throughout it.

 

Alicia:

Now it makes sense. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, because you do. You look at diamonds and they have a rating of what? Four Cs or something. Four Cs or yeah [crosstalk 00:28:08].

 

Janica Campbell:

Clarity and color.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this also kind of gives you that foundation for the business.

 

Janica Campbell:

Absolutely.

 

Alicia:

It sets that mission or your [inaudible 00:28:20] as you work and build your firm. It makes sense.

 

Janica Campbell:

Thank you.

 

Alicia:

Love it.

 

Janica Campbell:

Thank you.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Well, I have a saying, the four Ms. Media, mother, mentor, and your maker. So before you write anything, you have to go over those four. So if you come up with something that’s unique, let me know.

 

Janica Campbell:

I will. I will. I’m sure I can. But I love those, the four Ms.

 

Eileen:

Yeah. I coach people and there’s conflict or anger or whatever. And I say, “Hey, before you send an email, send a tweet, send anything, you better check the four Ms.

 

Janica Campbell:

You get to check something.

 

Alicia:

Right. Don’t send that text message out until you check that box.

 

Janica Campbell:

Absolutely. Absolutely. As a lawyer, we say, “Just don’t put it in writing. Please just don’t put it in writing.”

 

Eileen:

Exactly. Well, and as a coach, I see the other end of when they do put it in writing, it explodes.

 

Janica Campbell:

Exactly. I say, “Don’t put anything in writing that you would not want reading out loud in court.”

 

Alicia:

Ooh, that’s a great one.

 

Janica Campbell:

Yeah. A judge can read your words out loud and sometimes it doesn’t sound so nice in court, so.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Well, and especially if your intent was something else and people interpret it in so many different ways-

 

Alicia:

Absolutely. Yeah.

 

Eileen:

… so, that’s wonderful.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Janica Campbell:

Absolutely.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. Specifically, we live in a time now, it’s just like, don’t put it anywhere.

 

Janica Campbell:

You’re right. It’s never going away. So be cognizant-

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Janica Campbell:

… it’s never going away.

 

Alicia:

Don’t blast people on social media. I used to see people doing, I’m like, “Okay, that’s going to stay there forever.”

 

Janica Campbell:

Right. Right. Yeah. It’s very true.

 

Alicia:

Here’s one of the things I want to talk about because a lot of times our young generation, they’re struggling a little bit to understand how to lead or how important leadership is. So can you talk about someone significant in your life that you can tell or is a role model to the next generation of saying, “I’m taking responsibility, I’m at school, I’m doing something great?”

 

Janica Campbell:

I certainly can. So, as I mentioned, I happened to be in Boston right now and I’m here because my oldest son has taken a job here in Boston. So, I’ll give you a quick little background about him. His name is Jaylin and he’s 23 years old. Jaylin graduated with honors with a biology degree from Morehouse College. He always jokes and tells me how he’s inducted into the same National Honor Society as Jeff Bezos, so [crosstalk 00:31:26].

 

Alicia:

Great.

 

Eileen:

Good for him [crosstalk 00:31:28].

 

Janica Campbell:

… I happen to have a few honor societies myself, but he’s like, “Jeff Bezos is not in [crosstalk 00:31:34].”

 

Alicia:

He’s like, “I got one up on you, mom.”

 

Janica Campbell:

And that’s okay. That’s by design. Jaylin, while he was in college, he actually studied abroad in London. And he decided then that he was going to go back to London to get his graduate degree, which he did. So, he went to the University College London and got his master’s in epidemiology and public health. So, he has come back home and was interviewing for a bunch of different jobs and had quite a few offers even some back in London. And he decided to take a job here with Boston Public Health as an epidemiologist, and what he said to me and I was just so proud as a mom, it just warmed my heart. He said, “I have quite a few offers and some I can make more money.” And he said, “But Morehouse taught me that I have to make sure that I take care of my community.”

 

Janica Campbell:

He said, “And with Boston Public Health, they are interested in looking at racial disparities with the healthcare and the healthcare aspects.” He said, “And so that is in alignment with who I am and what I want to do. And I know that I would be happy waking up every day and doing that work.” And he said, “The money will come, but for now, I’m going to do this work that’s in alignment with who I am.” And so that just goes back to the value. So, it showed me that, again, I believe I lead by example. And so he’s watching and he’s watched. And he also understands that he has a younger brother and a younger sister that’s also watching him.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

And he is just very intentional in what he does. And, “Listen, I want you to be happy, but for you to be 23 years old and to turn down a significant increase in salary and say, ‘No, I’m not going to do that. Morehouse said I should do this, and this is an alignment with who I am and I’m going to be happy doing this,'” was very powerful for me. And it told me that I did something right. I did something [crosstalk 00:33:51].

 

Alicia:

Yes, that’s impressive. Yes, yes, yes.

 

Eileen:

You absolutely did something right. And one of our guests on our show shared how grateful and you’ve said how grateful you are. And she shared, it was Vikki Pryor, who runs Change Create, and transform. And she said, “I cannot think all the thousands of people who have helped me get where I’m at now, some that I remember, some that I don’t remember, but that makes a difference.” So he and you are, and all of us are acting and being watched and acting in a manner of giving back that we may not know by other peoples, by our little acts of kindness, our acts of coaching. And you explained it extremely well on the example with your son and then how he’s role-modeling for his brother or his siblings.

 

Janica Campbell:

Yeah. And quite candidly, it goes out even further than that. He has friends that are watching and we’ve traveled as a family since he was young. So to him traveling and leaving the country, and honestly, as a mom, I think when I felt like he was raised, was when he had the confidence and the wherewithal to believe I can go, I can leave the country alone and I’m going to be okay.

 

Alicia:

Wow!

 

Janica Campbell:

Of course, he had my credit card with him, but he was still able to leave the country, take care of himself, go to university and he knew he was going to be okay. And for me, that was the moment that I said, “You have been raised because I have equipped you with all of the tools and you have this toolbox and I’m going to show you how to use them. But at the end of the day, you have to use it.” Again, going back to nothing unless you do. So, pay attention. And because there’s going to come a time where you’re going to have to pull out a different tool for whatever is required at that time. And for him to feel like he can pick up that toolbox and go across the ocean and that he was going to be okay was so powerful to me and guess what? He was.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Janica Campbell:

He was more than okay. So okay that he went back again [crosstalk 00:36:30].

 

Alicia:

With mama’s credit card too, right?

 

Janica Campbell:

Absolutely. Absolutely. But thank goodness for this Boston Public Health job, because I get my credit card back.

 

Alicia:

Right.

 

Janica Campbell:

But even for his friends, a lot of them, they’ve seen him travel abroad and study abroad and [crosstalk 00:36:50].

 

Alicia:

Yes, such a young age, yeah.

 

Janica Campbell:

Absolutely. He’s inspired other friends and people to do that who may have been afraid to do it. I hear him talking to people all of the time saying, “No, you’ve got to do it, try it, you love it.” Then the people there, and he can talk about the different experiences and the difference in people, and the difference in education, even.

 

Alicia:

Wow!

 

Janica Campbell:

So, he is an advocate for that. In fact, as a little side note, he has a little passion project where he wants to encourage more people to do that because of the experiences that he has had. And then it’s just so super attractive to be able to say, “Oh yeah, I have a degree from University College London and I’m back in this state here.” So yeah. Inspiration goes a long way. And many times, you don’t even realize or know of how many lives you have touched.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

But it will come full circle at some point. But it’s just a great thing. When you do the right thing, good things happen.

 

Alicia:

Well, here’s the question for me and for the listening audience and someone that’s around his age. Explain what that degree is. Epidemiologist? Did I say correctly?

 

Janica Campbell:

An epidemiologist?

 

Alicia:

Epidemiologist, okay.

 

Janica Campbell:

Epidemiologist. Yes. So, he’s like a health scientist.

 

Alicia:

Oh!

 

Janica Campbell:

Yeah. It’s like they study basically what’s at the heart of illnesses or diseases and then attempt to try to eradicate it. So, a lot of these epidemiologists are working on this coronavirus-

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

… stuff right now and everything. It may be like polio back in the day. So, epidemiologists are really looking at the heart of the issue. So not just treating it, but what do we do, or what can we do to eradicate it at its core? So that’s what they do.

 

Alicia:

Wow!

 

Eileen:

And they use a lot of data too, right?

 

Janica Campbell:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Yeah.

 

Janica Campbell:

A lot of research.

 

Eileen:

So, [inaudible 00:38:53] data’s and like, they’re called registries to where people with certain diseases put information in there. It’s very, very… Well, what I know it’s social and scientific mixed together, so it’s a balance. It’s just not all detailed statistics. It’s taking the balance and it’s a very, very… It’s unique to have that skill.

 

Alicia:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Janica Campbell:

Yeah. And again, I think that’s why it was so much in alignment with who he is, because he’s done really well in schooling and all, but the thing that I am proud of him for is the fact that he’s a good person. So, when you talk about that social part of it, my son recognizes racial disparities. He recognizes that even if he may not directly be impacted or affected by something, that there are so many people that look like him that are and have been, and he wants to be a part of that change. And then there’s the science part of it, which is the research and the data and [crosstalk 00:40:03].

 

Alicia:

Right, it makes sense.

 

Janica Campbell:

… that he puts it together. And being a black male, he can relate to certain things. And then he will have a different perspective. So yeah, you bring the two of those together, and then you look for solutions.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Janica Campbell:

It’s good to work. It’s great to work. No one ever heard of public health before, now that we’re in this pandemic, you’ve heard of public health now. So, it’s a field that a lot of people should start looking into.

 

Alicia:

Correct.

 

Janica Campbell:

Lots of science. Lots of science, so.

 

Alicia:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And as you were talking about it, when you said it, and I was like, “[inaudible 00:40:42] just great ideal for him to want to embrace that as a young black man?” What I like is, and the reason why I wanted you to explain it even though I really didn’t know what it was, but there’s some other… But what if other young people would want to get into that? At least it can give some inspiration for what it is, yet everything that you want to do in life is a lot of hard work. No ifs, and, or buts about it, but just to hear that another young person took the time in their educational career to say, “This is what I want to study because I want to help.” And that level of intensity of understanding public health from a global perspective of it.

 

Janica Campbell:

Right.

 

Alicia:

All the data and the research as Eileen explained what it does. I just think it’s phenomenal. So, I wanted you to explain it.

 

Janica Campbell:

No, I think… And even here in epidemiology, lots of people may not have ever heard of that. However, I don’t care how many letters the word may have or how scientific it may sound, what people need to understand at whatever age is that you can learn anything. The brain is malleable. So, if you are interested and if you want to learn it, you can. You have everything that you need to acquire the skills that are necessary for whatever it is that you want to do. So if you’ve never heard of epidemiology and it may sound like something you want to learn about, the tools are right at your fingertips to Google or pick up a book or give me a call and talk to my son, whatever it is, there are resources available for you. But again, nothing works unless you do.

 

Alicia: And if you need

Yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

So, you can get whatever information, whatever knowledge, but you got to want to do the work. And it may be a lot easier than you even think.

 

Alicia:

Think, yes.

 

Janica Campbell:

Fear keeps people from trying things and most times, we imagine things to be far more difficult, or far more intense than they really are. So it’s just about, again, nothing works unless you do.

 

Alicia:

Yes. Well, I always say that we have fun so much on this show and when you have great fun, time is winding down. Before we close out, what are some words of wisdom? Because you dropped a lot of them, but you dropped a lot of wisdom. I’ve been taking notes like crazy. I was taking notes and I do go back and look at my notes, because I like it when wisdom is being shared. So what are some words of wisdom you want to share with the listeners?

 

Janica Campbell:

Let’s see. I would tell people, I would encourage people to stop trying to find their passion and decide what it’s going to be. You’re one decision away from a different life. And a lot of times I think people are waiting to feel something, just make the decision. You decide what you want to do. You decide what you are going to be passionate about. And then you figure out the steps of getting there. So, don’t wait for life to happen to you, create the life that you want. You can do that. Again, perspective is everything. So, if you’re not where you want to be right now, decide where you want to be and then you adopt the characteristics and the values that lend themselves to that. And you will get there. It really is that simple. We already have it inside of us. You just have to recognize that. And then again, do the work to get there, but don’t allow life to happen to you. You create the life that you want, you make it happen. So those would be my words of wisdom.

 

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on the Soul of A Leader Podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.