Alicia:
Hello and welcome to Soul of a Leader Podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. In today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen Colleen talk with Randy Lewis, to share there’s No Greatness Without Goodness.

Eileen:
Welcome to Soul of a Leader, Randy Lewis is our guest. He is a Peace Corps volunteer, Arthur Murray dance instructor, business leader, and accidental advocate. Randy served as Walgreens chief supply chain officer for 16 years as the chain grew from 1,000 to 500 to 8,000 stores and became the world’s largest pharmacy chain. He pioneered a disability employment model in its distribution centers that resulted in 10% of its entire workforce consisting of people with disabilities. Over 1,000 people with disabilities, who are held to the same performance standards and are paid the same wages and work side by side with nondisabled workers. It began with the launch of a distribution center in 2007, which became the first-ever large-scale deployment of people with disabilities. 40% of the workforce in a mission-critical site, the facility became the most productive in the company’s 100-year history.

Eileen:
From there, the motto was spread to its other distribution centers, and to other companies in the US and abroad, including companies such as UPS, Toyota, Lowe’s, Marks & Spencer in the UK, and NATPARA in Brazil. His book, No Greatness Without Goodness, was released in April of 2014 and was named by Fast Companies, 10 new books you need to read this year. The book recounts the story of how the initiative came about, and what led to the success. Welcome, Randy.

Randy Lewis:
Thanks. Great to be here.

Alicia:
Welcome, Randy to the Soul of a Leader Podcast. Now, you know, Dr. Eileen read that bio. Is there anything you would like to add? I mean, she put a really good dent into it. So I’m sure it’s probably some more you think?

Randy Lewis:
It’s a lot. I’d like to say that most of it were true.

Alicia:
What are these, I want to hear about you as we get started is, dance instructor? Tell me a little bit about what that encounters for you to be a dance instructor. I’m just eager to understand.

Randy Lewis:
Of all things. The reason I put that there is because I have discovered when people want my complete background, that’s the most interesting thing. Their way obviously wants to dance for some reason. How did you end up with that? I’m from Texas. And so I’m in Texas at that age. Everybody when they started high school, started these teams where you would learn, go out and meet girls learn how to dance. Even though the instructors thought that I had a natural ability, I didn’t know anything about it. So I learned to dance, and ended up teaching dancing through high school. So when I was in grad school, I came back to the Peace Corps. I was off my parent’s dole. And I needed to figure out a way to make money, for tuition and books, so I went and started working at Arthur Murray and I worked there two years, it was a great experience. Here is not nearly as glamorous as you might think it is a lot of work. And, but it was a lot of fun too. And I’m glad to do it.

Eileen:
It’s quite athletic. People don’t think of dancers but they’re very athletic.

Randy Lewis:
Well, it’s hard enough to hold your arms up, it’s your side for a long time. That’s the biggest thing we teach men. If you change your posture, you’ll look 10 times better just by changing your posture, whether you do anything with your feet. We collect a lot of money.

Eileen:
Well, the one item I want to ask you too, is the Peace Corps volunteer. That had to be an experience. If you could share a little bit on how that assisted in your leadership vision as you move through your life and your career.

Randy Lewis:
Well, Pearson [inaudible 00:04:59] I’m a no childhood 60,000. I graduated from high school in ’67. So, Kennedy has been president, sixth and clear. So I carried all that idealism. That was, we started Earth Day when I was in college, all the anti-war, all the engagement, Age of Aquarius, and we thought we were going to save the world. So going into Peace Corps was a logical thing to do. And plus, my brother really wanted me to do it. So he was very convincing. So I was fortunate enough to get to go to Peru, I got to learn the language, I was in a little city of, well, the town of about 10,000 people, I was the only gringo down there. And so, I was probably a foot taller than the tallest person there. so everybody knew where I was, I didn’t know where anybody was in that town. Everybody in town knew where I was, at all times.

Randy Lewis:
In that experience, it was a wonderful experience. Most of all, I learned that we are so much more alike than we’re different. These folks didn’t have near the opportunities that I would have. And I was looking forward to it. And I was able to learn. They were great teachers, patient teachers, too. But I learned that if I could take some of them and bring them up to the United States, they could clean the clocks of a lot of people in high positions. These uneducated folks that they have near the opportunity. They do so much. I saw so much creativity, I saw so much joy, I saw all the tragedies. And I learned what being homesick is like, because I didn’t get mail except for two weeks, I had traveled two hours to the post office to the big town to get mail. And man is it hard to get into a mail fight when you’re having to wait two weeks in between. And so, it was a great experience. But I did learn what being homesick was all about. I came back once. I made two phone calls back home during that time. So it was a long two years.

Alicia:
One of the things I want to ask you because we on the topic of being in a Peace Corps. When you were in the Peace Corps, can you kind of define what type of leadership style did you have while you were in the Peace Corps? Or What did you develop in the Peace Corps as a leader? You want to talk a little bit about what type of leadership style that you created or developed?

Randy Lewis:
Flexible. We were going down there to save them. We were going, I was an accountant. So the problem in Peru that my group was addressing, they had too little too, not enough land doing clovers. So that’s very inefficient to give credit to all these different farmers as individuals and the most economical acres, two or three acres, and subsistence farming. So Peru decided to form a lot of cooperatives so they can aggregate people together. So we can go and get it for loans and for purchasing power and lots of things. And they had enough technical assistance and farming, and they had enough experience, but they had no experience of running a business. So my program was good to go down here and assist these cooperatives on how to run a business and how to run an organization.

Randy Lewis:
And I found one of the first things I found out that word cooperation didn’t exist in Spanish in Peru, because they were fiercely independent. So it’s very, for most Peace Corps volunteers who go down here to save the world they get very disappointed with and I was no exception. Because when you really look at it, you’re seeing somebody that’s maybe 21 at a time I was 21, who didn’t know the language, it takes you about a year to learn the language. I had no experience.

Alicia:
Wow.

Randy Lewis:
A job. The only thing I had going for me again was my height, but the status as an American. Because the United States at that time, we had just gone to the moon in ’69. And everybody was very impressed with that, that we didn’t claim it for our own, that we claimed it for the world. So our status was very high. And also, all the movies I ever saw came out of the United States so we had a disproportionate impact on our culture. Now they thought every, at that time every woman the United States was tall and blonde, [inaudible 00:09:48] all the time. That’s what they thought from there. But I was very frustrated. People would listen to me because they were polite. That was one thing I had learned about leadership, people will say nod their heads lots of times, but they won’t do anything.

 

Randy Lewis:
They were very patient. So what I had to learn is to be with them where they are, and get their confidence before, it wasn’t what I knew, it was if they knew me, they had to be ready to listen, I learned that lesson over and over. And fortunately, I was a good student of the culture, I went down there to learn the culture. Because I had gone to Mexico once and saw people speaking Spanish and I was so intrigued by the difference. I had to learn more about it. So by me learning the culture that helped provide me the creds when I wanted to do something. And not, they also taught me how to be able to say yes, when I’m really mean, no, because they were very good at. For example, they would, when you’re invited… This is a Peruvian custom. I invite you to a party, where you will always say yes, of course, you’ll ask me when it is. I’ll say, “This is great, I can’t wait.”

Alicia:
Right.

Randy Lewis:
We’re saying he learned that nobody shows up. They’re there, what’s happening. They came up with something else. But that’s not the word. Now, here’s what’s crazy, you’re offended if you’re given a party, but it’s great when somebody asks you to a party, you just say yes. And then if you don’t go, they say okay, so it was very forgiving, but it was not…

Alicia:
Yeah, that’s different.

Randy Lewis:
I had learned things like that. So.

Eileen:
Well, I heard you say, meet people where they are. And a couple of guests in the past have said that. So how would that apply to your wonderful work at Walgreens? Bringing people with disabilities, life-changing, world changing into Walgreens? And I’m a huge customer of theirs because of this. You know why? I want to support and I know [inaudible 00:12:24] how to. I would love to know where your vision came from and your leadership with that.

Randy Lewis:
You mean, why we did it?

Eileen:
Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
I have a son, who is now 35. And he has autism. And when I was working at Walgreens, he was born at the time I went to work for Walgreens. So one thing I discovered about autism, among all parents, not just with autism, but any parent with a disability, I discovered we share the same hope and dream. And that is to live one day longer than our child because we know what’s waiting for them once they get out of the school system. And the support out there in the public system is not there. So what’s going to happen? And that weighs heavily on every parent, that position. But the job, a job can change all that. It can mean security, it can mean friends. It can mean a whole different life and in a world open up. So we start as parents, almost start thinking about that from day one. Once we kind of get over, kind of the shock, then you have to worry about all the things in school and all the immediate things. But that’s one back in your mind.

Randy Lewis:
And I realized, when I go out in our stores a Walgreens has about 225,000 employees, about 200,000 of those are our stores. A lot of those folks are part-time not making a lot of money. And I realized as I lay in bed at night looking at the ceiling saying how can I ever accrue enough savings and make sure that my son is going to be okay[inaudible 00:14:26] pass? And I said here I am a person with means. If I’m worried about this, what about all our people in our stores out there? Who doesn’t have those means? And what is that all those people, those parents, or those kids when I would go into the class when Austin started your program at age three and see those other kids and I thought autism was really not the hardest thing to have and I saw other challenges, and I’m going, “What are they going to do?”

Randy Lewis:
Austin learned to speak at age 10. A lot of people with autism never learned to speak or I learned that autism is not I mean, my wife and I learned to say, “Hey, we had no problems when we see what everybody else has to deal with.” So it wasn’t very hard to get from. And we were a successful company, we were hiring a lot of people. I got into a position where I was running all the distribution at 10,000 people. We were hiring 1,000 people a year. And I got to thinking, well, if I can’t do something, who will? And if a company like Walgreens can’t do something, what company could?

Alicia:
Right.

Randy Lewis:
And again, I was at the right time of my career, I couldn’t have done that when I started. Because they didn’t know me, I had no track record. It all came at the right time. By the time I had decided to do it, I had demonstrated. And I got that trust, that I could do something like that, that I was capable, and had the trust of leadership and the board to take that chance. Now, when I presented it to the board, first of all, the President was, so he did a great job of selling it, so I didn’t have to do much. But we showed him the numbers. And he said, “This can be the most expensive center we’ve ever built.” And I thought, “Oh, that’s not good.” And I said, “Well, it’s going to be our best, it’s going to be our most efficient [inaudible 00:16:27]”.

Alicia:
Right.

Randy Lewis:
And I got those terms. Everybody likes a return on invested capital.

Alicia:
Right.

Eileen:
Right.

Alicia:
You gotta have those terms.

Randy Lewis:
And [inaudible 00:16:42] But, and we’re going to hire a large number of people with disabilities. Now we were planning on 1/3. I didn’t want to tell him 1/3 because I didn’t want to, I want to get to the success of V. So we’re going to have a substantial number. And the question, they asked me, “Well, what if it doesn’t work?” And I said, “Then we’ll adjust. Just like we do on other initiatives that don’t work. We try lots of things. So it’s going to be, we’ll adjust.” And then after the meeting, the President called me into his office, and he says, “Do you think this thing is really going to work?” And I said, “Well if it doesn’t, you’ll never know.”

Eileen:
Exactly.

Alicia:
Right.

Eileen:
What if it works?

Alicia:
Right.

Randy Lewis:
If it works, hey, yo, we’re riding horses.

Alicia:
Right. If it works, great. If it doesn’t, you never know if you don’t try it, right.

Randy Lewis:
Yeah, boy, you must have really been brave. I said, “You don’t get the model level, this level of the organization without figuring out a high Tech’s.” I haven’t met a Vice President yet that doesn’t know how to create it, we drag their feet and hide things that are bad.

Alicia:
Or know when to make adjustments. Got to know how to make adjustments.

Randy Lewis:
Exactly. So we started out, we aimed big and it worked. I mean, when I was selling up, the team was a different kind of sale. They had to trust me too. That was a big thing.

Alicia:
Oh, yeah. Trust. Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
But I think part of it, we were careful on who we selected for this first building, as a leader. We wanted people who got volunteers. Anytime you want to do something new, don’t go out and assign it to somebody, ask for volunteers because [inaudible 00:18:37] you want a true believer. And then my, and in the team, most of the biggest issue was fear of the management team.

Alicia:
Wow.

Randy Lewis:
And it was the fear that they would make a mistake.

Alicia:
Interesting.

Randy Lewis:
And it was fatal. The one level at the line manager, they really worried about working with people with disabilities, because they worried about making a mistake, they would do something wrong. So we had to assure them you’re going to make mistakes. intent matters, though. And what do we do? We usually make a mistake, we fix it, we move on and the rest…

Alicia:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
And I said, I had, this is cajoling, inspiring, but also speaking the truth. I said, “I do not know if this will work. But here’s the deal. Give it your best because we want to sleep well at night. We’re hiring people with disabilities, we’re going to have them screened, we think they’re going to be successful but we’re going to intern and let him give him a chance and in nine weeks we get to watch him and we’re going to measure.”

Alicia:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
Then once you’re successful, we’re going to hire. I don’t know if it’s going to work. We’re going 1/3 of the workforce. Something’s never been done anywhere in the world. It’s a big deal. And we’re going to have to let some people go, who won’t be able to perform. Because if we were going to go out there and hire people with disabilities, we want to show the world that people with disabilities can perform as well as anybody else.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
Right.

Randy Lewis:
That’s why we’re not going to lower our standards.

Eileen:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
We’re going to pay the same wages.

Alicia:
Absolutely.

Randy Lewis:
Side by side, same performance standards. And guess what? Some people will not be successful, but we want to sleep well at night. So here’s the standard. Give it your best. If you have something that you have a procedure or policy that gets in the way that you can’t go around, then kick it upstairs, and we’ll see what we can do. And if it doesn’t work, we’re going to tell the world that nobody could do this, because we could not. That’s the standard. That’s what we’re going for. And there are no rewards for being successful. And there’s no punishment for being a failure.

Alicia:
Great.

Randy Lewis:
And anything worth doing is worth doing poorly. Though we borrowed that from Mark Twain but it’s true. We’re going to give it our best. And we’re going to not leave anything on the field. He knew that we’ll look back at this. Successor failure is the best work of our lives.

Alicia:
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [crosstalk 00:21:33]

Eileen:
And you created a safe environment.

Alicia:
Yeah.

Eileen:
For failure.

Alicia:
Yeah.

Eileen:
Or for success.

Alicia:
Yeah, like you said, for both. Because, as I listened to you, you set the stage for the people who had fears, I was taking my notes. Because oftentimes, people don’t want to try something different because of fear. And I think, in your story, you said, “Listen, give it our best, give it your best, and try to understand how we can make everyone successful, knowing that there are a few that are not going to be successful, but we giving our best.”

Randy Lewis:
Right. We as leaders, that I had it explained to me one time, there’s a certain level of performance, you have to have to keep your job. You think about that discretionary effort. And each person knows where that is. We can see that as leaders, we can’t say I know that you got a lot more in the tank. No, they’re already giving you that. You don’t know what the superlative tank is. So if you can engage that part, that’s not just, they’re enrolled there. They’re committed to it. That’s what we had to get people to. And they don’t get that way if they’re fearful. They’re fearful. They’re already starting to hedge their bets.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
Right. Right.

Alicia:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
Because they’re looking for the problem and saying reasons to look more into one doesn’t work.

Eileen:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
Saying, what can we do to make it work?

Alicia:
Right.

Randy Lewis:
There were certain things that came out of this unplanned, not that I foresaw was so brilliant in this, it came naturally. This is what we discovered. Most people wanted this to be successful. People volunteered to work in this building. Because they wanted, everybody knows somebody with a disability.

Eileen:
Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
I presented this to our 5,000 store managers in a meeting in Las Vegas, it was the first time that a distribution guy had ever come talk to them, because, and for good reason, because all the problems you have in a store are mostly caused by guys like me, who wouldn’t deliver the right product or nothing you’re looking for, which is the biggest source place. So I joined this meeting in Vegas, and I tell them about the center and the plans. I first told them, it’s going to be a much better service, you don’t have to worry about all those problems we’ve been causing you over the years, we’re going to fix all that. And they weren’t very interested in that. They were like a bunch of farmers churning milk out there. Working on a farm is a lookup from their notebooks but when I said we’re going to hire a large number of people with disabilities, the room changed. And got their attention. And then at the end, I explained what we’re going to do 1/3 of the people’s same jobs, all that kind of stuff.

Randy Lewis:
That we were all right together. In the end, I did not plan this, but it just seemed to come to the moment. Here I’m surrounded at the Paris Hotel 360, people in the lights I can’t hear so can we turn on the locks I said, if you hold somebody in your heart, family members, somebody you know, that has a disability. Please stand up and the room was quiet and people started standing up here and there, and then more people, and then more people. And then it was about one out of five people standing up in this room of 5,000 people and at that point, it wasn’t my story. It was our story.

Eileen:
Wow.

Alicia:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
The power in that whole thing. And after that, when once you get up and coming, I would get letters from the store managers saying, I have this kind of problem. I’m doing this, how do I do this? People, when we announced it, we got letters from all over the United States, everybody wanted to make this a success. So it was that part. So now coming back to the building about management. Managers didn’t want to fire those people with disabilities, they’d had nine weeks in this internship program, they knew all these people. They did not want to fire them. So what did they do, they work their tails off in trying to make them successful.

Alicia:
Wow.

Randy Lewis:
About making the numbers, they knew they had to make the numbers. And when we talked to managers, they say, “Hey, this is a building where everybody thinks about making each other disability or not successful.? That’s us, I mean, by doing that, we’ll always make the numbers. So when one of our things was to, when we said, and this gave it power too. when we’re finished, this is not going to be one of our strategic secrets. How we like to talk business over, we’re going to jump ahead of the competition, we’re going to be the only ones that know how to make gold out of the lid. Now, he said, when we’re finished, we’re going to give it away even to our competitors.

Eileen:
Wow.

Randy Lewis:
So that gave it power too. So we bring in all our competitors. And we still conduct tours. And we probably conducted 500 companies through these and we let them come and see everything, we used to do a boot camp, it’s brand new management, let’s say your two weeks, so we’ll train them and everything. We don’t do that so much anymore. But when they would come, we put them in a room and we show them the place and put them in a room with managers. And they could ask the question they like. Does this really work? Or what’s a bad day like? Or how do you terminate a person with disabilities? By the way, the answer to that is the same way you do a person without a disability. So if you’re worried about, if you’re not comfortable doing the same procedure, then you’re not terminating correctly, right on people without disabilities. But they would hear stories from the managers. They would tell them stories of what they did to make somebody successful in the pride and so a lot of economies said well about people’s disabilities, but I want this culture.

Alicia:
Absolutely.

Eileen:
Yes.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
And then I would say these stories, I can remember this one story. It was, I think I got so many stories, I had one guy with OCD, obsessive-compulsive disorder, we’ve learned more initials in this process, I didn’t know all the range of disabilities we have and we haven’t found a disability, we would automatically exclude it because everything is a wrench, we couldn’t hire every blind person, every person with autism, but more than we thought. So he had OCD. And part of his procedure was cutting open boxes because what he did in camp prepared him for the last pick. But he was really focusing on cutting the box and not damaging the merchandise side, but we got some numbers to make. And that’s what you’re focused on. So his supervisor got a piece of paper and put a number of boxes, he should be doing every five minutes and little squares. You can put these on cars, Xerox them, and put them on little cards.

Randy Lewis:
And so now he ticks off the boxes, he’s changed his compulsion over to getting those boxes ticked off. So it’s a win/win. He’s gotten faster. And he uses, his challenge becomes part of his ability.

Alicia:
This ability, correct.

Eileen:
Wow.

Randy Lewis:
And another, can I tell you this one too.

Eileen:
Yeah.

Alicia:
Yeah.

Eileen:
Absolutely, please. We want to hear these. These are wonderful stories and our listeners are going to learn and they also can read your book, No Greatness Without Goodness. So keep telling these stories. We want to hear it.

Randy Lewis:
Okay. Again, most of these are true, too. So we had an HR person here with CP, one of the best HR people I’ve ever worked with, Angie. And she had a friend from high school, her age, who had sent two teenage boys, she has CP. I think her name is Iris. Iris has CP had never worked before. She got on a line, put her on the line, on a huge picking machine has lots of buttons and one of those buttons that she has, the button has a collar around, meaning a ring and the button goes up flat and choose me on something that’s really important, you don’t want to accidentally push down. So you’ve got to kind of be able to get inside that ring with your fingers to push the button, that outside ring. And Iris with her hands couldn’t do that or fingers. She didn’t have mobility in her fingers. And she just couldn’t keep up with what we, the expectation. So the distribution center called in a disability accommodation expert engineer.

Randy Lewis:
And he looked at it and said, “I don’t think something can be done. I think you’re going to have to let her go.” And the supervisor thought we can do something. So he got one of the maintenance guys and they went to Lowe’s and got a ratchet, ratchet to those round things that you put on the screwdriver, your value, maybe records an inch tall and about an inch across and set it on top of that. But an encoder section of the room handles out that would sit inside that on top of the button and stick out. So she could press that down. And she stood in a gray. It was, I think it cost us $5 and she made it right. And every time somebody comes to visit, he tells that story.

Alicia:
Yeah. Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
And sometimes the stories are not successful. But they will tell them anyway. I’ll tell you one more story, and then I won’t tell you anymore.

Eileen:
No, we want to hear. Go ahead.

Randy Lewis:
No, this was a young man who was not successful. So this is not one of those great hallmark stories. He was ultimately not successful. He worked on a line where they had to cut open boxes, sometimes. And it’s really high speed, you separate merchandise. And so he had a space issue. He didn’t like people coming into his space. And that area has a person probably every eight feet upon, a long line to work and work in, working individually but this stuff is coming at him and rather fast.

Alicia:
Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
And there’s an aisle behind them. And there are people working on the other side. And a custodian came by pushing a broom, cleaning up the floor in the area. And he got very upset at that. And he’s nonverbal. And so he’s working, he had his box knife out. And so he was waving his arms over his head yelling, being very upset. And it was very scary. And that’s something we couldn’t, one thing if you’re violent, you can’t work there.

Alicia:
Right.

Randy Lewis:
So what the manager did, his manager did. He went to stock and got some masking tape and masked, put on the floor an area around his workstation on the floor. So it delineated his workstation. And they got these big letters that you put a birthday party and over this workstation so you can see it from afar. These letters are about one foot tall. And what is that? They say his name was Tom. Tom’s workstation. Okay, that’s pretty easy. You see Tom’s workstation, you see the tape on the ground.

Alicia:
Right.

Eileen:
To stay away.

Alicia:
Right.

Randy Lewis:
[inaudible 00:33:36] And then they went to Lowe’s. I say Lowe’s because they used to model two and got a section of two by four about four feet tall and stood in the corner and put one of these remote button doorbells. Okay, put a remote doorbell and the ringer is over there by let’s say Tom sitting here. And it has a sign on it. And it says, ring the doorbell and wait to be invited in before entering.

Eileen:
Oh my gosh, even the… Yeah.

Alicia:
Wow.

Randy Lewis:
Then they taught Tom and they put it on the card. One, when the doorbell rings, put the box cutter in an apron. Two, turn to the door. Three, invite guests in. That’s what they did.

Eileen:
Oh my gosh. how creative.

Alicia:
Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
No, he was not ultimately successful because of rain. But you don’t think the people who worked alongside him, the people you that people with a disability say what do people, What do managers think of me? What will they do for me to help me be successful?

Alicia:
Right. Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
That’s what impacted.

Alicia:
Absolutely.

Randy Lewis:
This is a place I’ve never worked before. People would go out of work because it’s so easy to say, “Well, didn’t make it.”

Alicia:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
And it’s the trust that is the lifeblood of any effective organization. But any leader.

Alicia:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I like what you said, it is the lifeblood of that situation. Because it created managers who wanted to, you said, give it your best to think outside the box. Think beyond saying why there’s nothing we can do. But with the first auditor came in, and I mentioned, wait a minute, let’s think of something else that cost us $5. So allow us to help the other young lady. And now you got a gentleman you say, let’s create the box because there’s a space issue. And so when you think about allowing people to just think, oftentimes in business, nobody wants to think outside. Well, let’s think about, we call it critical thinking in school, when I was in my Ph. D program, I had a hard time with that. But now, in hindsight, I understand what that means. And if we can have that a little more in and in some of these corporate positions, and allow people like that to feel, “Okay, well, what can I do for me? If I’m just like my coworker over here with similar symptoms?”

Eileen:
Well, and what’s neat about that is what you’re sharing is the seeds.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
Those are planted not only for these people with limited capabilities, but that same seeds go to all the employees.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
And what a change in culture.

Alicia:
Yeah. Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
I mean, that’s why people come, they’re impressed by the culture. No, by the way, how’d you do? Here’s the other thing. This is one of the things I noticed. Most cafeterias, unless things have changed in the last three, four years. Most cafeteria is going to cafeterias are self-segregated around race. Have you observed that? Although I’ve never talked to anybody at their company, where that’s true, but it’s interesting. Oh, once I go into that seems the way it is. So it must be there on special days. Yeah, you’re there, when we kind of get it with our own roofs day. But in our buildings, that’s what happened in every one of our buildings. And one of the first things we noticed, we didn’t self-segregate around race. I have ideas about that. But that has happened in the buildings where we have a large number of people with disabilities. That’s one of the, one thing that we have. And when I ask other companies, they go, “Yeah, that’s right.”

Eileen:
It is about love.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
It’s really, it’s about love and how we’re all connected. And we are all the same then.

Randy Lewis:
And I think that when you see a person with a disability, there’s a prejudice against people with a disability, but it’s the only prejudice wrapped in love.

Alicia:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
You feel the risk of…

Alicia:
Love.

Randy Lewis:
Somehow, don’t we? But disability and love, it’s prejudice. You don’t think they can do the work? And once you see a person that everybody thinks nobody, everybody agrees that people with disabilities can’t do the job, because we just know they can’t. Otherwise, we wouldn’t call it a disability, why wouldn’t they be working for the last 20,000 or 50,000 years since wouldn’t be good enough? So once you see that and see them as people and see them as capable, it kind of quickly puts in question all these other paradigms we care about. And I think it’s a very easy lesson. You’re not forcing people. It’s a movement of attraction, not coercion.

Eileen:
Right. Yes. Wow. Yeah. I like that. A movement of attraction.

Alicia:
Attraction. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, we have been having a great conversation, because I love your stories, and with everything, something has to come to an end. So before we close, we’d like you to leave our listeners and us with some words of wisdom. And I would like and your words of wisdom, share a little more your values because I picked up a few because trust and love are there. But tell us a little more of those values with some of your words of wisdom.

Randy Lewis:
Well, I mean, when people ask me about being a leader, the first one though, how do I get more control over others? We have heard a survey of managers, the top two things managers want is more control over their own actions. And secondly, more control over others actions is kind of a, so it’s got, everybody wants control of others and everybody wants their own. So I think I’ve come to a deeper appreciation of people who love people and realize everybody’s in a different place. And that the joy comes in. And a lot of things I learned and a lot of things I learned through experience. You see, joy comes when you have an absence of pain, doing something courageous or doing something for somebody. And I’ve had that experience. And then when you do something courageous and do something that does have some risk in it, but it’s the right thing to do. Those have, I’ve been happiest, even when I know I could lose.

Randy Lewis:
Because I’ve learned and I’ve talked to a lot of execs, retired. And I’ll ask them two questions. What’s your greatest accomplishment? And what’s your greatest regret? And there will be lots of differences about accomplishment. But on regret, there’s a lot more commonality than you would think. And it always comes to something like this. I had the chance to do this and I didn’t. Because I thought I’d have more time or I didn’t want to take the risk. It’s the regrets. They carry more of a load with them than their accomplishments.

Alicia:
Wow. Wow. That’s impactful. Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
By being a leader. I think the biggest thing to watch out for is hubris. Nobody fails when they’re deathly under the gun. They fail when they fly home. Icarus never has flown into the water. He always flies too close to the sun.

Eileen:
Right

Randy Lewis:
Okay, I’ll just give you the test. I’ll tell you three things. This is why I think it takes to be [inaudible 00:41:57] and it’s all it’s worth reading. And I haven’t gotten burned by it yet or burn where it bothered me enough to change my mind. Think of somebody in your life who has made a profound difference in your life. Can you think of that? Person now? The second question is, think about the best project you’ve ever been on? Okay, can you give me that one? And thirdly, think of someone that you would give everything you’ve got. [inaudible 00:42:33] puts all your chips on the table. Did you get that? Those three little.

Eileen:
Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
So this person you’re thinking of, was it a family member or not?

Eileen:
Mine is not a family member.

Randy Lewis:
Okay, and what’s important about it to you?

Eileen:
I’ll tell you, I worked at MDA, Muscular Dystrophy Association and tried to do a little bit of what you did. And I met two young people that I would bet the world on. That came and worked at our organization as a springboard to go somewhere else. And they’re both just succeeding. I have all the respect and the courage for them every single day. And all they do is shine love every day. It’s amazing.

Randy Lewis:
And how do they affect you?

Eileen:
How do they what?

Randy Lewis:
How do they affect you? Because the profound impact on you, not [inaudible 00:43:48] made a difference to the way you are?

Eileen:
Oh, they have a huge impact because I see them as people. I see them as energy. I see them as love. I see. And then what I do is say, no. That we’re all connected, no matter what struggles you’re, no matter what you’re working with, no matter where you grew up, what barriers you did, there’s an energetic connection and no judgment. And they made me realize that.

Randy Lewis:
Alicia?

Alicia:
Yeah. I would say, someone that made a profound difference in my life, I was proud to say, my father. Working on something with him, whether it was a transition in my life or something, the impact of chess and it may because it’s just because it’s your parent, but when you’re going through something in life, you need the right person to say the right thing and not just because of your parents, and yeah, I will put my, I will bet on them because I know he would do the right thing. And so that impacted my life, really helps me to keep evolving as a woman, as an individual. Because it’s so invaluable when you get wisdom. Or you can have someone in your corner. And so I can imagine how people feel when they know I got one person that I can bet on or can count on, or that can be in my corner, regardless with no judgment. Not looking down on you. But that was there.

Randy Lewis:
Excellent. And mine was a Boy Scout counselor. And got two merit badges. But I remember my best memories as a young boy about 12, standing inside his overcoat on a cold Texas night, looking in him pointing out the stars to me. And that was Mr. [Bullo 00:46:08]. And so he and I’ve had some teachers. So now I remember this, I mean, remember TLC. Okay, so that’s so T, is teach they teach you something. Well, leaders, do they, especially leaders in position. That’s what they do. They don’t keep it to themselves. They teach by example. [inaudible 00:46:31] was the wisdom that your dad passes on, or Mr. Google, pointing out what No. Scorpio looks like. They pass on, you don’t hold it. The more we give, the more we get. So that’s T. All right. C, this project you worked on, I’ll just ask one question about it. Was it easy?

Eileen:
My project was not easy.

Alicia:
Yeah.

Eileen:
It was not easy.

Alicia:
Yeah.

Eileen:
It was all the cant’s, what ifs? Why are we doing it? people going around, agreed-upon procedures that they verbally agreed to say and said they would do it and then do it. There was a lot of struggle, but it makes you grow.

Alicia:
Yeah. Yeah.

Randy Lewis:
You’d say the same reason?

Alicia:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it was never, if I think of that one issue, just being in school was never easy. It was a struggle. It was, you can feel the people that will go around you or say something against what you’re trying to accomplish. Not uplifting you at the time. Yeah, I don’t even want to relive those moments. Because that’s when you get in those moments that you have to understand how you have to come out of that because you can get depressed. Or you can get into a state of saying that I’m not enough. And who am I to think that I can accomplish that. So, oh, yeah. Going through that. It’s never been easy.

Randy Lewis:
Answer your question. No. Probably the 100s of people. I’ve never had anybody say the best project we worked on was his, It’s always been tough to see in the TLC stands for the challenge. Now, can you guess what the L stands for?

Eileen:
Love?

Randy Lewis:
Whoa, you bet. Love? Can I always tell you a quick story? My daughter, our oldest is lucky she was our first child because that’s silly. When you really look out after you take the doctor when you need to be there. So besides, they can walk it off and they get sick. But when she was nine months old, she got bacterial meningitis and had about a 50% chance of living. And we spent over a month in the hospital. But I remember in those first days, that the doctors and the nurses would not tell us anything, which is not good. You say because you’re always wanting everything to be okay. And they say we’re doing the best we can. That’s where you get to… And I remember in prayer and that’s whenever there’s no atheist in a foxhole. And there’s no atheist in the ICU, children’s ICU.

Randy Lewis:
And I remember bargaining with God on this. I said, “If you will let Sarah live, whatever you demand of me, you can take everything for me. I have. All my future, all my everything. Just let her live.” And that was a good bargain at the time. And I never want to forget that I was that far. There’s a story, there’s a movie with [inaudible 00:50:09] for aside and he’s going to die. He’s trying to drown himself and swim so far out. The insides want to live and he bargains with God, if he can get him all the way back to shore, he’ll do the same thing as he gets closer to shore. What he promises, God gets smaller and smaller and eventually knows what starts off. I’ll give you half my money. And then he gets to, “Okay, I can’t give you any more money, but I’ll go to church all the time.” And then when [Bali 00:50:33] gets really close, he said, “Well, I’ll try to get there when I can.”

Randy Lewis:
But I never want to forget how far I was from shore. It’s time. And I think about that the reason it’s important when I’m in a meeting, it helps me look around the table and think about, these people love somebody probably love somebody as much as I love Sarah. And when it comes to Sarah, I can’t imagine in a room and when she’s working with others, how anybody could be cruel or dismissive to her if they had any idea what she means to me. So, love, I think that is huge, it’s a huge plus, it’s a huge benefit to have. Empathy is a gift. The pain of love is a gift. And I found that to be true. And it also, that’s what makes it, that’s what gives meaning to teaching, challenging as a human, we need that and we need love. It’s more fun giving love. It’s a gift. Power is to give love. It’s up to demand love. It’s giving this joy. If there were no kids, there’d be no Christmas.

Alicia:
Right.

Eileen:
And, Alicia and I are very spiritual. And God is love. God is love. And you’re right about the foxhole, it’s how do you nourish yourself every day to have the strength when you are in the foxhole?

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
That he will be there for you.

Randy Lewis:
Well, and you got everybody’s during the [inaudible 00:52:27] Everybody bought some hard level and you see that’s a comforting thing. We connect more in our weaknesses than we do in our strengths.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
Absolutely.

Alicia:
Oh, yes. Yes. And it’s in your weakness where you find when you know that you are in that foxhole, that the only way you’re going to get out of that foxhole if you know God. Number one. And it’s in the weak moments where you know where the strength has to come from, and that everybody is in the same foxhole sometimes. Is how do you get out of them?

Randy Lewis:
God’s a big word. I started up in a very traditional Christ Church, but I got it most people are talking about religion, God as you grow older God.

Eileen:
Yes, yes.

Randy Lewis:
I have more wonderful, and less certainty, to even claim. I’m like, probably everybody my age, we were all brought in church and none of our kids go to church. But I think they’re gone. Their God is the same God as we put all these labels on, we get an argument for the labels.

Alicia:
Right.

Randy Lewis:
[inaudible 00:53:57] I don’t have to claim to know, the truth, it’s that’s on any of that stuff. But love is if humans that’s one of our gifts.

Alicia:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
In pain is a gift even though it is painful. Without the pain, there is no real appreciation of how we love and how we can pinpoint the [gym 00:54:25]. And I think that’s an important part of leadership. I don’t think that’s, that gooey stuff.

Eileen:
Wow, this has been a wonderful conversation, Randy.

Alicia:
Yes.

Randy Lewis:
I hope. I had a great time, you’re the one asking the provocative question.

Eileen:
No, no [crosstalk 00:54:45]

Alicia:
[inaudible 00:54:45], Randy, yes.

Eileen:
The wisdom, our listeners, I mean, this is phenomenal conversation. And thank you so much. And what is your website, Randy? If somebody wants to check out where they can get your book and find where you’re at?

Randy Lewis:
The website is, nogwog.org. N-O-G-W-O-G, No greatness, Without Goodness.

Alicia:
No Greatness Without Goodness.

Eileen:
Without Goodness.

Alicia:
Yes.

Eileen:
Well, you definitely are living and breathing and every day, No Greatness Without goodness and let’s spread that across the world. Thank you so much, Randy. Thank you for joining us on the Soul of the Leader Podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at wwwsoulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.