Eileen:

Hello and welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. On today’s episode Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with Sally Lou Oaks Loveman to discuss Love Speaks.

 

Alicia:

Welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast. Sally Lou Oaks Loveman is the former audience producer for The Oprah Winfrey Show, who lives her purpose by reconnecting the audience. When she was age 14, she turned into her passion for television when she was an audience member at the Mike Douglas show. Now, I don’t remember the Mike Douglas show, but it sounds very familiar. And spotted a woman on the set with a clipboard. Sally Lou had no idea what this woman did, but she knew she would do it one day, too.

We are so happy to have Sally Lou and I’ve known her for a while.

 

Sally Lou:

Yes, yes, Alicia. I’m so happy to be with you this full circle moment. Totally.

 

Alicia:

I know, right?

 

Sally Lou:

So, yes, you are young, you are a young person. That’s why you don’t know who Mike Douglas and what the Mike Douglas show was, but it was…

 

Alicia:

I remember it.

 

Sally Lou:

… one of the first talk shows on television, right?

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sally Lou:

You’ve heard of Merv Griffin?

 

Eileen:

Yes.

 

Sally Lou:

Does that ring a bell?

 

Eileen:

Yes.

 

Sally Lou:

Listen, there are people in this world that are like, “Oprah Winfrey Show. What’s that?” I’m like, “Oh, how old can I be? Oh, my goodness.” So, funny. But yeah, the Mike Douglas show. That was it. That’s where it all happened. It’s where my soul came alive.

 

Eileen:

That is fantastic. And I know Dr. Alicia introduced you, but was there anything that we missed that you’d like to add?

 

Sally Lou:

My goodness. Well, I’ve had a long lovely career and it’s still continuing. There’s a lot that isn’t in there and there’s a lot that was, so I think you’ve got it all right. So, it’s all good, it’s all good. Yeah, the connection with the audience piece, that’s my jam. That’s what I love. And I just, I saw this woman on the set with a clipboard. I was 14, it was 1976. She had a headset on which made her cool, obviously. And she had, that clipboard made her official and she was so busy. Now, I don’t think she was an audience producer because I don’t even think that there was such a thing.

You got your ticket, you sat down. But I saw her and I just, something about her, something about the environment. I had said yes to my mom, she invited me. I don’t know. I didn’t ask to go. She still has no idea why we went, how we went, how we got tickets, but it was one of those moments where I’m so grateful that I did say yes to my mom, because I could have easily said no. We’re 14. We have a million other things we could have done. We, meaning we all say no to our moms too often, which is why I like to say accept invitations from your mother because you have no idea what that experience is going to open your world up to.

And for me, that ticket was my career to look into that career of television. And it was really my ticket to my career with Oprah. So, I really attribute the whole experience to what prompted me to say, “I want to do what that girl is doing.” I don’t know what she does, but she’s in a TV studio. She’s holding a clipboard. And that’s pretty much what I did my whole career. I was in a studio with a clipboard. I did a lot of things.

 

Alicia:

Yes, you did.

 

Sally Lou:

We probably did very different things. She might have been an audio tech. She might have been a video tech, I don’t know. But I know that she was the visual that I had at a very young age, very impressionable, and I just said, “Yes, please. Yeah.” So, it was a pretty cool moment. And I’ve been looking for her. Trust me. I worked at the office show, so every producer was like, “We got to reunite you with the girl with the clipboard, the woman with the clipboard.”

And I really got. I’ve had near misses with people. I’ve Googled crew sheets from 1976. It was filmed in my hometown of Philadelphia at that time. I think it later moved to L.A., but at that time, it was filmed in Philadelphia and that’s why we went. And I will say that just recently I was doing an event, a virtual event speaking. I was speaking and there was another speaker, who when she heard my story about the woman with the clipboard, she said, “Oh, I need to reach out to you.” And she reached out to me after the event and her father-in-law was a producer on the Mike Douglas show.

 

Eileen:

Wow. Wow.

 

Sally Lou:

Now, he’s in his 80s, I think. And we later, we had a Zoom call.

 

Eileen:

Wow.

 

Sally Lou:

So, it was me, her father-in-law, Alexa and the fellow speaker, then her husband was there, my husband was there, his wife was there, her mother-in-law, we were all crying. We were like we knew we weren’t going to get the woman with the clipboard, but just talking about it. And the most beautiful part of that moment was that he said, “I’m so grateful for this call because sometimes I just feel like I’m not that important. And I just, I had such an important career. And it was so much a part of my life and to sit here and talk about it reminds me of my worth.”

And I went, “Hallelujah, I feel the same way.” We all feel that. And it was so lovely for him to be so vulnerable at his age and, and to say, “We all feel that.” We all struggle with that. And so for me, I didn’t get the end result of what I wanted, which was like, “Maybe I’ll find the woman with the clipboard.” I got way more. I got way more.

 

Alicia:

My gosh.

 

Sally Lou:

I mean, we were all crying. He’s the sweetest man ever. Anyway, his name’s Bob.

 

Eileen:

Wow, thank you so much for sharing all that. That’s phenomenal.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah, it was sweet. It was a sweet moment. Those are the things that really stick out. Story is so important to me. I chase the story. I chase every story I can. And I chase it until I get the ending I want. And I think that’s really what my whole purpose for being here on this earth is. And I think I just clearly played that out at The Oprah Winfrey Show. I mean, I had a front row seat to those powerful stories. And sitting in the studio audience, it was really powerful for our studio audience. It’s powerful for viewers at home.

But for me, I was there. I saw the guests walk on and walk off. And a lot of them, I held in my arms. A lot of them, I said thank you. A lot of them, they landed on my heart and they landed on millions of people’s hearts. And it was the most perfect moment in time for a woman named Oprah Winfrey to launch this beautiful show that was just about being yourself and telling your story. And I realized that’s really what my whole purpose is. And I had a great mentor, a great leader.

 

Eileen:

And there’s a quote that I can’t remember who said it, but saying that stories are the connection between our heart and our head. And are there any stories you’d like to share with us during that time period that really shifted you as a leader? There Are probably many, but is there anyone that made you stretch or challenged you as a leader? 

 

Sally Lou:

I really, really loved leading my team at Harpo. It was a great joy for me. We were very invested in making sure that everyone that walked in the door to see the show was treated with respect and kindness and felt like a family. We wanted it to feel like home. And obviously, Oprah did that naturally and easily. It’s her nature and that’s the beauty and the magic of her show. We did it, too. We were really the frontline of the show. Before they met Oprah, they met our team, so we took that very seriously. And Alicia and I worked together when she was working for Stedman. And we always had, you had your seat holds.

 

Alicia:

Yes, sending people over there.

 

Sally Lou:

[crosstalk 00:09:06].

 

Alicia:

My gosh.

 

Sally Lou:

Yes, yes. And we really cared for the people. And I will say that, the beauty of really being invested in the show, in the brand came from Oprah. We all felt that way. And so that’s, I think a great leadership quality when you are so invested in the brand. I will get back to answering you, but I will say that there was a certain magic that happened in that building. And when magic happens, when a talented group of people come together for one purpose and the purpose is embodied by the person that’s the leader, that’s in charge, that’s great leadership.

When a leader is able to embody that purpose and trickle down to the president of the company to the custodial staff and anyone and interns and whatever. And that is when magic happens, because we were all in alignment. We were all feeling the same goal, the same mission and we were all very committed to it. We all did very different things, but we were all committed to it in our own way.

And so, I will get back to answer Eileen, in that there were people who came on to the show, who bared their souls and who told stories about really tough things that they were going through like divorce and adultery and debt, and I mean, addiction and weight loss, weight gain. All of these things that nobody really wants to talk about and they talked about it to millions of people, because they felt safe. They were in our space, they felt safe with Oprah and they felt safe where they were and we really wanted them to feel safe. So, I think to be a leader, you have to feel safe, you have to have your people feel safe. You have to allow people to be who they are.

Oprah is brilliant at that. Another quote, now we’re quoting, is Joseph Campbell, “The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are.” She made a career out of being who she is. And I think that that is what we were taught and everyone that came on the show that told their story. And I’m not really talking about celebrities. I’m talking about the people that really came and told the real hardships of their life or the joys of their life. There were plenty of joyful moments.

But when Mattie Stepanek came on and talked about his outlook on life and how beautiful it was, he knew he was dying, and he was such an angel and that changed me. I mean, the parents that came on who’d lost their children in a car crash and how they went on and had more children. That changed me. There were a lot of things that changed me as a mother, I will say. A lot, a lot. And as a leader, we just were so in awe of the fact that people were so brave. And I think leadership, you need to be brave as a leader. And the brave people that’s who sticks with me more so than the celebrities.

Although that, I’m not going to say, it wasn’t fun meeting Beyoncé because it was. But it was the brave people like you and me and everyone listening, who really changed my heart, impacted my heart. They’re the reason why I wanted to tell my story in my book. They’re the reason why I went home every night and hugged my children and my husband. And their stories, listen, I miss it. I miss it.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. My gosh, yes.

 

Sally Lou:

I think we need it now more than ever. Yeah, yeah.

 

Alicia:

Talking about missing it, I mean, even though I tell you, I tell people, “Do you still talk to Stedman?” I’m like, “Yes.”

 

Sally Lou:

Gosh.

 

Alicia:

Because I was there for 20 years. How could you not miss that connection of what you were doing? And so, I can connect when you say that because when you are truly involved in your purpose, because I heard you say that, and in a little bit more, we’re going to talk about those values that connect. It’s something about being in a place where you know you’re in your purpose. And yes, all the fanfare, it was there, but that wasn’t a driving force.

 

Sally Lou:

Yes. And I always say that fear has no access when you’re in your purpose. So, for me, I was never scared to get up in front of 300 people in the studio or 2,300 people on Michigan Avenue or 15,000 at the United Center, and do the audience warm up. I was never scared because I was so in my purpose. I was the girl with the clipboard. I’m like, “I can’t be scared.” And I was so busy doing my job and I think a really great thing for anyone who fears things is to make sure that one of the number one fears prior to a pandemic was, is speaking in public.

And for me, I’ve made a career out of speaking in public and I might not have made that career had I not been the warm-up girl for The Oprah Winfrey Show. And I think the whole reason why I wasn’t scared was simply because when you get to know your audience before you speak, you can’t be scared because they’re your friends. And I was so busy greeting and bringing in and doing all the production challenges that were behind the scenes and loving television and loving being with the people that I am had no time to be worried or scared to be on the stage.

I loved it. Someone handed me the script, I’d read it real quick. I already knew what the show topic would be and then, I just got on and I just let the audience. It was their moment. It was their show. And that to me, I wasn’t scared. And that’s allowed me to help people get over their own fear of speaking because I learned so many tricks and so many ways to just circumvent fear, because of the fact that I was so completely in my purpose.

 

Alicia:

So, one of the things I want to kind of add a little bit to that, because you’re absolutely correct. A lot of times we have fear about something, but when you’re in your purpose, you don’t even think about that. And I must say…

 

Sally Lou:

You don’t.

 

Alicia:

… you are so good at what you do. To get in front of all those people at United Center or the Oprah Show, I could never do that. I’m like, “Oh, no.

 

Sally Lou:

Well, the funny joke is, I love saying this, because it’s true. For big shows that we did, that there’s all, yeah, you’d be in these big meetings with every department head and all of the production team. And they’d say, “Well, who’s going to do the warm up?” I did the warm up in the studio, but they’d be like, “Oh, we’ll get a celebrity to do it.” And then they’d run out of a budget and they’ll be like, “Oh, Sally Lou will do it.” I’m like, “Okay.” I never got paid extra, that’s for sure. But if they ran on a budget, Sally Lou will do it. And I-

 

Alicia:

Just call little Sally Lou.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. And so, I do. I have sat in the United Center since that epic show that we did in 2011. And I’ve looked around and I’ll nudge my husband, like at a Hawks game or something, I’ll be like, “I was on that. I stood in that. That was where the stage was.” It’s like, I think we were at a concert. And I was like, “I did that. What in the world?” I spoke in front of this crowd, like “What?” And you it is kind of an out of body experience like that, but I wasn’t scared. What I was scared about that night was getting all the people in and on time because we were running so late because Beyoncé had a few extra rehearsals.

My God. Does anyone watch Schitt’s Creek? Does anyone watch Schitt’s Creek? The show Schitt’s Creek?

 

Alicia:

No.

 

Eileen:

I watched one episode so far, because my friend told me to.

 

Sally Lou:

You have to, you have to.

 

Alicia:

Okay.

 

Sally Lou:

I just reminded myself of Moira Rose, who’s the main character. I get people telling me that all the time. But what I just said totally reminded me of her. Anyway, whatever. I digress, but you’ll see, you’ll thank me later when you have.

 

Alicia:

I have to watch that. I have to watch it.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. Swept the Emmy’s, so it’s good, yeah, anyway.

 

Alicia:

So, what are some of your top values that you think of when you are in your moment of doing what your purpose is? What are some of your top three values?

 

Sally Lou:

Well, I mean, to just utterly be yourself, like just be who you are. That is the most important thing any one of us can do. We have been given a gift. We have been given a unique gift of being who we are. And the minute we start to change that is the minute we give up, like come on, like you can’t, especially in the world of comparison that we’re in with social media, and everything happening so fast. And you’re like, “Oh, my God. I can’t keep up. I can’t keep up.” But it’s like, just keep telling yourself, “I am doing what I do, I am doing what is right for me. I am doing as much as I can right now in this moment, and I am who I am. I’m not perfect. But if I make a mistake, I own it and I make a moment out of it.” That’s I think being yourself is really essential to anyone being happy.

Because we know the thief of joy is comparison. And if we compare ourselves, it just it’s never, it will never get where we want to be. And if we can allow ourselves to say, “Hey, this is me. I can always do better. But I’m going to be okay. I’m going to be good to myself and realize that this is me.” Like for instance one of the very first speaking gigs I got and I was still working at Harpo was a very big brand and it was a four day event. Out of town. Hotel. It was awesome. Got paid really well, like amazing.

And the producer after my day one, he pulled me aside and he said, “You know what I like about you, Sally Lou?” And I was like, “Uh, what?” And he says, “You’re not slick.” And I was like, “Oh, my God, I’m not slick. Oh, my God. This is so awful. This is my first real speaking engagement. I’m not slick. I’m supposed to be slick. I need to be slick. I need to be like Tony Robbins. Oh, My God.” And then I realized, “Oh, my God, I am not slick. And that is why you want me.”

Now, if you want Tony Robbins, you can get Tony Robbins. I’m not comparing myself to Tony Robbins, I’m just saying. But for me, I’m like, “I am not slick. I am who I am. I am human. I can be funny, I can be self-deprecating, I can make a mistake, I can run, whatever.” The point is I really, I owned it. Then I realized it actually was a compliment, and I owned that. So, value. Be yourself and own who you are.

Number two, do everything with your heart. Yes, you have to obviously be rational and not do crazy stuff that is going to put you in a bad situation and chase your heart all day long. But if your heart is happy, you’re happy. And giving is so much better than getting. I mean, it’s like when you give and you give and you see others rise up because of things that you have provided or allowed or manifested, whatever it may be. I just believe that heart is behind every… I mean, if a leader doesn’t have heart, like I said. If a leader doesn’t have soul, they can’t lead. If a leader doesn’t have heart, they can’t lead. I know, there are times where you’ve got to not lead with your heart, but as long as your heart’s part of it, I think that’s really important.

And the other value I have and I have a lot, so for three is hard. But community is such a huge piece for me. And I think now more than ever, especially in the isolation world that we’re living in and in a virtual world that we’re living in, I feel so connected to both of you right now and I feel my heart is full. And that’s wonderful. And I know that going forward, you’re going to think of me and I’m going to think of you in other ways. And now, we’re connected.

And so if you just spend a little time connecting with the people that you work with and asking people like, “Tell me your story. Who are you? What are?” I mean, it makes everybody so efficient when a community can be in sync with each other and connect with each other. And I think storytelling is a huge piece of that. And so, I really believe that in leadership, if we know each other’s stories and we are vulnerable with our own stories, we are a more connected community, and we’re also a more efficient community.

And if team sat down and had story time, I don’t care if it’s on Zoom, I don’t care if it’s in-person, hey, families, too, they will grow, they will flourish, and they will thrive. They will thrive. There are times where if you’re working with people and you don’t know them, you don’t have to know all the details of their life. But if you don’t know them, that slows everything down.

My team and I at Harpo, we could read each other’s minds. We could speak each other’s sentences. We knew what we needed, what we wanted, what we thought, without even having to say it because we knew each other. And that’s part of it, the storytelling, I think. So, anyway and yourself-

 

Alicia:

And it’s so funny that you said it because all while you were talking and I kept saying, “She’s a good storyteller.” And storytelling is good. I mean, that was a connection because it means a lot to tell. I mean, you sound on point.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. And storytelling is there’s science behind it that it makes people happier. And it makes people feel more connected. And so when I tell a story, it will land on your heart in ways I won’t even understand or know unless you tell me. And it won’t be the same as your story, but a piece of it might remind you of a piece of your story or a piece of your story might land on my heart or remind me of a piece of mine. And that’s when we realize we are more alike than we are unalike.

And that oxytocin that rises, that hormone that rises in our body, in our bloodstream is real. I mean, remember being in kindergarten and the teacher telling you to come to the rug for story time? And you just felt like, “I’m so happy.” It’s the happy feeling. And I think if we all do a little bit more taking time to sit down. I said at Christmas like, “One of the greatest gifts you can give someone and it doesn’t have to just be a holiday, it can be any time is a gift of your time.”

And you ask someone that you love and say, “Tell me your story. Tell me more. Tell me something, I don’t know. Tell me about my dad, tell me about my mom.” Whatever it is, whoever you’re speaking to. And you’re giving that person, especially if they’re an older generation, such a lovely way. It’s such a gift to them, because they’re things that they get to talk about that they miss and that they love. And then now, you’ve got an audience.

I mean, my tagline in my book is, “Your audience is waiting.” We all have an audience. We all are able to have people gather to listen. And it doesn’t matter if it’s one person or 100 people. If an audience has gathered to hear from you, that is important and you should give them the benefit of obviously being who you are, using your heart, creating this community of love and telling them your story and listen to their story. Listening to their story is such a gift.

 

Eileen:

That is wonderful. I mean, the place where I work, we have what’s called Show and Tell, almost the same.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah, I love that.

 

Eileen:

We have people get on especially when we’re so isolated here. There’s no office connection. We’re hiring people. And it’s a show and tell and it breaks barriers, and people go, “Oh, my gosh, I never thought that of you.”

 

Sally Lou:

Right. Well, and if you’re an HR and you’re the people on what you guys do. You’re the people who handle the people, you need to know your people. I love that.

 

Eileen:

Exactly. And other people and like what you said, today, where we are in a pandemic and everything is scheduled with Zoom, right? It’s a way to connect. And what I heard you say is like when you tell stories, the heart comes out. Your real story, it breaks barriers, it connects us. And your book is great, your tagline, “Love Speaks.” Right? Love speaks. Tell us how you came up with that. I mean-

 

Sally Lou:

Well, yeah. It’s not my tagline, it’s my business actually. So, my book is Speak: Love Your Story, Your Audience is Waiting, but my business is Love Speaks. And that is really about when something you love speaks to you, you’ve got to do it, you’ve got to do that something, whatever it is. If it’s just common to you and you’re ignoring it and ignoring it, it’s like that it’s the whole thing of the brick and the brick of the brick, and then it becomes like more bricks. And you’re like, “Okay, okay, okay. I get it. I got to do this.”

It’s when you are naturally talented at something and I always believe that when people get a compliment and they say, “You’re so good at such and such.” And they say, “Oh, no, I’m not.” That’s such a disservice. It’s like, “Yeah, I am. I can tell you a hundred things I’m terrible at, but I’m really good at that.” And when you are owning what you’re good at, what your talent is, what you were born to do, then again, it’s efficient. You don’t waste time. Then you get to share it with others.

And so, for Love Speaks, it’s when something you love speaks to you. For me, it was television. For others, it can be many different things: Art, music, medicine, anything, flying a plane. I don’t understand anyone who would feel that way because I’m terrified of airplanes, but anything that speaks to you, you gotta do it. In fact, one of my favorite things that I always talk about in my book is my brother-in-law’s brother when he was a little boy, he loved the smell of jet fuel. He played with airplanes, model airplanes. Whenever his father traveled for business, he would ask to go to the airport to see him off or to welcome him when we could do that.

Sorry. I’m attaching my light.

And today, he is an analyst for the travel industry and is quoted at every platform with regards to travel.

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Sally Lou:

So, it’s just something that, and I love asking people, “What’s your talent? What did you love doing as a young person?” And usually, whatever that is, it’s tied in to what they’re doing today. And if it isn’t, it needs to be. And so, anyone listening, whatever your talent is, own it, share it, because it’s now a commodity, you’re not being egotistical by saying, “Yeah, I’m really good at this.” Because you are and it should be shared. And then it’s just, it’s so, life becomes easier. You don’t have to fight it. And then all of a sudden, you’re doing what you love, and you’re making money and it’s great, and it’s wonderful.

Now, it’s a luxury. Not everybody can do what they love and make money. So, if you’re listening and you’re stuck in something that you don’t love, whatever it is that you love, try to incorporate that into your life in a way that’s either a volunteer or a side hustle. And try to get it to the point where it can be something that can help support you. It might not support you totally. You might always have to do two things or five things, but you’ll be happier doing the stuff you hate. If you’re playing the guitar, and you want to be a rock star during your off time, whatever it may be. You got to feed your soul, yeah?

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sally Lou:

We got to feed our souls.

 

Eileen:

Absolutely.

 

Sally Lou:

And that is my doing what you love.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. Yeah. I am so glad you wrote that down because I was waiting to ask the same thing, like, “Okay, how did you come up with Love Speaks?” And now, the clarity is there for me because in order to do something that you know that keeps pulling at you and pulling at you, that’s the love of that particular thing. Like I just love to organize and make things happen and solve things. I mean, I really thrive off of it. And I’m like, “I got to solve a problem here.” And so, I get paid for solving problems sometimes.

 

Sally Lou:

How cool is that? How cool is that?

 

Alicia:

I could solve that problem. Yeah, it was easy.

 

Sally Lou:

And that is-

 

Alicia:

Some people are like, “All right, recognize it.” But I get it now because I always used to do it when I was younger.

 

Sally Lou:

Well, okay. I was just going to say, “What did you like to do as a young girl?”

 

Alicia:

Always figuring something out. You had to see and figure out. “Now, how did that work like that?” Sometimes [crosstalk 00:31:44] stuff.

 

Sally Lou:

If I-

 

Alicia:

I’d be like, “Oh, that’s how I did it.” So, I get it. There’s a connection.

 

Sally Lou:

I love seeing when people connect the dots like that. It’s very cool for me to see it because for my personal story, like I get it. I was like, I… well, I’ll tell you. When I was a young girl, I loved puzzles. And my kids are like, “Yeah, you never do them now.” I’m like, “I swear to God, I love puzzles, because I liked when things fit neatly together.” The other thing I loved was I had the reel-to-reel tape recorder and I would sit in my basement and I’d make my sisters pretend they were celebrities, and I would interview them. And so, I was just loving that whole storytelling on the medium of tape.

And so for me, seating the Oprah audience was literally like a giant puzzle for me. I loved when I could put a design and place people with the right colors of their outfits or the right energy or the right this or the right that or the sponsors or the fans. And if one seat was missing, it’s like the one piece puzzle piece that I wish you could see that’s missing in our puzzle that we lost, it’s driving me crazy. And so for me, I love when things fit neatly together.

And I love stories that fit neatly together that have a great beginning, middle and end and that’s what I do. I was an audience producer. I set the audience. I then told stories and have them, the audience tell stories. And I am now a podcaster, and a host and an author and a writer, and a speaker. And so, all those things, they are all tied into six-year-old Sally Lou Loveman or sorry, Sally Lou Oaks.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. You gotta have that in there.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that you added Oaks when you introduced me. Thank you. It’s important.

 

Alicia:

One of the other things I was thinking about is you making me laugh and smile, but it’s when you were a kid and you’d think about the stuff that you want to do when you grow up. And all of a sudden, now, we are grown up adults and [crosstalk 00:34:05]. And do you ever sit back and say, “Wow, I wanted to be that when I was little and now, I’m big and I’m that.” Have you ever had that moment?

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. I recently was a producer who actually is a friend pitched a story to News Nation, which is the new, WGM launched this national news channel. And she, and they liked it, and so, they did a piece on me. And I watched it. My husband and I watched it live and I’ve said nothing. I didn’t speak a word while it was happening. And after it ended, I just gently fell to the floor. I was like this. I just, I sat and I was flat on the floor and I was like, “Did I just die? Am I dead?”

 

Alicia:

And your husband?

 

Sally Lou:

“Am I dead? Am I alive?” Because it felt the most beautiful like…

 

Alicia:

It’s Sally Lou.

 

Sally Lou:

… memorial piece almost because it included everything in my life. And it was my career of my life and it was so beautifully done. And I was like, I felt like it was just like everything. And I really, it impacted me so strongly, Julie Peterson, Producer. And I felt so much gratitude, but I really, it overwhelmed me. It took me to the floor. And I just went, “I did that. Wow, I did that. Yeah.”

 

Alicia:

I just got to ask you a question. What did your husband do? [crosstalk 00:35:43]?

 

Sally Lou:

He was laughing. He was like, “Oh, God. Here she goes.” Yeah, normally I’m like, “Yeah, yeah.” But I was like, “Oh, my God.” I was like, “Am I dead? Was that a memorial piece? Was that like a…” It just felt so beautiful, but it’s really hard to have a really big career. And then, I mean, I’m not saying my career is this. Oh, my God, I wouldn’t want to be hustling like I did. I’m 58 years old. I’m going to be 59, it’s really hard. I’ve done-

 

Alicia:

You don’t even look it.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. Thank you.

 

Alicia:

I’ll be 55 this year.

 

Sally Lou:

Well, you don’t look it, either. See? You’re not that much younger. You should know who Mike Douglas is.

 

Alicia:

I know. I do.

 

Sally Lou:

No. That’s why you’re way younger than 55. But I will say that I’ve had really great opportunities to work as a consultant, as an audience producer in New York for start-up shows for pilots. And I’ve had a really great time doing that. I haven’t done it in a year, but for the last five years prior to the pandemic, I was doing it and it was really fun because I get to go in and out. A couple of months, a couple of weeks, I get to do my thing and it’s fun.

I don’t know that that’s going to be in my future. I have a feeling it’s not and you know what? I’m okay with it. I really am. I’m really happy doing what I’m doing because I’m doing exactly what I want to do. And when I left Harpo, I said to Oprah, “I cannot work for anyone else. It’s you. It’s you.” Yeah, she ruined it.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. My God.

 

Sally Lou:

She has spoiled us rotten. So, I was like, “I-“

 

Alicia:

You guys were really spoiled over there.

 

Sally Lou:

Spoiled rotten.

 

Alicia:

Rotten.

 

Sally Lou:

Rotten. I am telling you. I mean, what television… I mean, first of all, we got paid 365 days a year, that doesn’t happen in TV. We got 11 weeks of hiatus, that does not happen in TV. And I mean, forget all the trips and all the boosts.

 

Alicia:

My gosh.

 

Sally Lou:

But when the show ended, she gave us a year’s notice, that does not happen. And I remember a few people would be like, “Oh, my God. This sucks. Blah, blah, blah.” I’m like, “Are you kidding? Let’s go out to the real world. Then you’ll understand what sucks.” And I think people understood that finally, but yeah. So, I remember saying to her, “It’s going to be you or me and if it can’t be you, because my job had become obsolete, it’s going to be me.”

So, I started my business and I’ve had some really great moments and I’ve had some moments where I’m like, “I think I got to stop this. This isn’t working.” So, it’s just like, you just don’t know. But having worked for someone like her and in a building where everything happened, I mean, you know?

 

Alicia:

It’s hard, yeah, yeah.

 

Sally Lou:

I would go to the bathroom and I have to leave my office to go to the ladies room and there was Elie Wiesel sitting there waiting for a meeting with Oprah and he stood up when he saw me. I was like, “Oh, survivor of the Holocaust.” I’m like, “Oh, my God.” That was for me the most important moment that happened to me in that building. And it only happened because I went to the bathroom. I went into the bathroom and I shut the stall, and I sobbed like a baby. I was like I just held the hand of this man…

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Sally Lou:

Who stood up against every challenge known to mankind. And I was like, “Oh, my God.” But that’s the way life was. You couldn’t even take in what was so exciting because the next exciting thing happened. It’s like you just… it was like, “Oh, my gosh.” So, yeah, life is a lot different, but I still have crazy ass stuff that I just love that happens that it’s just, it’s like, “Ah.” That’s always going to be me. That was me before I started there and it’s me after. So, yeah, it’s just really, I think I’m very happy with the fact and I think that it takes a good leader. A good leader knows when that part’s over.

 

Alicia:

When, yes, yeah.

 

Sally Lou:

A good… I’ll never forget when my dad who is now gone, but was struggling with Alzheimer’s and he went into the President of the hospital. He’s a doctor and he said, “I think it’s time.” And I was so proud of him, I mean, we all knew it was time, but it was his idea to say it.

 

Alicia:

Tell me about that beautiful award behind you because it looks like that’s a-

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah, my Emmy?

 

Eileen:

Emmy?

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. So I-

 

Alicia:

I thought so.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. I write in my book and I say it all the time, I’m the most undeserving Emmy Award winner known to mankind.

 

Eileen:

No, no.

 

Sally Lou:

No, no. No, I am. I am. 100% I own it and I love it. Here’s the thing, back in the ’80s and ’90s when Oprah was up for all these talk show Emmy Awards and we would all go together as a group to the Emmy’s and we’d sit with all the soap opera stars, because that’s what was on daytime television. And she won so much that she took herself out of even being in categories to allow others to win because she’s kind. Right?

So, in 1990, I had left because I did not… ’91, I think it was. I did not like being a producer and I had been promoted. And I really just want to be the girl with a clipboard in the studio, but when you get promoted, you’re like, “You can’t say no.” And I did not like being a producer. I love being a producer, but I didn’t want to be a producer of the talk show part. I wanted to produce the audience. And so-

 

Alicia:

Interesting.

 

Sally Lou:

Anyway, I was just a producer at that time when they won the Emmy. And before she took herself out of the category, I got it literally by association. No, that said. That said if-

 

Alicia:

Sally Lou.

 

Sally Lou:

I know. If they had Emmy’s for audience producers, I would say that I deserved it. So, I just think of it like that’s my Emmy for all the work and love and sweat and tears. And all the times that I went out on that stage when it was supposed to be Beyoncé, it was me. I was like, “Yeah, okay, I’ll take it. I’ll take it. I’ll take it.” It’s pretty cool. I think my kids are like, “Wow, Mom, you got an Emmy. That’s pretty cool.” It’s cool. It’s very cool. I appreciate it.

 

Alicia:

The kids, they probably said, “Mom, that’s the Emmy.” You’re like, “Oh, yeah, I mean, I remember. I deserve it, but I got it, but.”

 

Sally Lou:

I deserve it.

 

Eileen:

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

 

Alicia:

You deserve it even though that’s what you didn’t like to do at the moment.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. No.

 

Alicia:

I love the story.

 

Sally Lou:

I didn’t like when people canceled and I didn’t like making people do things that they weren’t comfortable doing. I’m not saying that we did that. But TV producers do that. You’re trying to get a good story on and sometimes, it’s not always in the best interest of people. I mean, our show changed. I was a producer during what we produced conflict television. And of course the live your best life and all of that changed. And we turned to focus on our soul and what was good for us. And I am not meant to be a person to produce conflict television. That’s not for me, so.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. You wouldn’t have lasted in that.

 

Sally Lou:

No, I got eaten alive, got eaten alive. Not my sweet spot. But the audience, yes. That’s my sweet spot, so.

 

Eileen:

Yeah. It’s perfect. Well, this time has just flown.

 

Sally Lou:

I know.

 

Eileen:

We can’t thank you so much. And when we close, we usually ask if you could leave the listeners with some words of wisdom.

 

Sally Lou:

Okay. Ready? My words-

 

Eileen:

Yeah. So, could you do this?

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah. My words of wisdom is if you don’t know your story, you need to get in touch with that. And I really believe that everyone has a story. Your story is not boring. Your story might be sad, all the more reason to explore it. I believe that if you really, really take the time to get to know your story, you get to know yourself. You’re more connected, and you are more open to others. And so the best way to get to know your story is to sit down and write. If you journal, you’re already doing it. If you don’t journal, I would just suggest, for me, I wrote a book. For you, for anyone listening, it might simply just be writing pages, your morning pages, your evening pages, whatever. And get to know yourself and share your story because people out there need to hear from others.

And you have no idea when you’re sharing your story, how it can change the trajectory of someone else’s life. And it’s just, it’s such a commodity. It’s such a gift that we all have. We all have it. We’ve all been blessed with a story, many stories. And so, I would just say, give yourself the gift of knowing your own story, so that you can share it with others.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Wow. Thank you so much.

 

Alicia:

I took note from that.

 

Eileen:

Thank you. Thank you. That is just phenomenal. And it’s so true. It’s-

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sally Lou:

It’s easy. It’s easy. It is something that we can all do and something, and it’s free. It doesn’t cost us a dime and it makes us all feel so much happier.

 

Alicia:

Yeah, yeah. And I like that. It really, you just, you get to know who you are. So, it either will bring a smile on your face or and then it could bring a little pain or hurt or, but…

 

Sally Lou:

Definitely.

 

Alicia:

… if you’re writing it and journal it, it should get you to a point of wanting to be better or move in life to do something that brings you the joy. And so-

 

Sally Lou:

It’s very healing. It’s extremely healing. And for me, I wrote a lot about my father and my grandparents in my book Speak. And I will tell you that I almost didn’t want to stop writing, because I felt so connected to everyone who’s passed on, that I wrote about and I felt so connected to them. Because when you write about experiences that you have with people who are no longer in your life, because they have passed away…

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Sally Lou:

It is such a beautiful practice to bring them right to the table where you’re sitting, writing. It’s really… it’s like I felt like my father was with me the whole way and I was so connected to my grandparents, to my dad. I just, I wrote so much about my grandmother, Marian and both of my grandmothers were Marian, but one spelled at I-O-N and one spelled at I-A-N.

But my one grandmother, Marion with the O, she was a single mom. Well, she was a widow. She lost her husband at early age and her children were out of the house, but one and he had cerebral palsy and she full time care and because she had to stay home with him because she didn’t want to… her husband was gone, she had to work, but she found a way to make a living by doing what she loved and her talent and that allowed her to stay home. She made tea sandwiches for people for events like baby showers and Easter and Christmas or whatever, wedding and it became quite a little business for her.

And I wrote so much about her because she is my total inspiration of love for when Love Speaks. And when I was home over the holidays, I went to see her house. Now, I am such the historical person. I take people on tours of my life at home in Philadelphia, but for some reason, she had moved to New Jersey at some point.

And I was like, “Oh, this house in Wynnewood, Pennsylvania,” I couldn’t find it. I didn’t know the address. And then I found it and I just stood in front of it. I’m like, “This has to be her house because I feel it.” It looked totally different, like the exterior, but I saw the step, I saw the gate. It’s like I knew where it was in the block. I’m like, “This is her house.” A very tiny house on an alley. Very, very small house. And it just, I probably wouldn’t have gone and done that had I not just written an entire book that included her.

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Sally Lou:

And I felt her and it felt so good, like she was right there. So, I think when you write about people, you bring them right into your life.

 

Eileen:

And she led you there, too.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sally Lou:

Totally.

 

Alicia:

Her spirit, yes.

 

Sally Lou:

Totally.

 

Alicia:

Wow.

 

Sally Lou:

Totally.

 

Eileen:

Yeah. Wow. Great story. Wow.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Great story.

 

Sally Lou:

I think so. Got some awesome stories. I’m here for the story.

 

Eileen:

Yeah. When your heart and your hands and your mind is open, you will receive and-

 

Sally Lou:

You will receive. You’re right, Eileen. You will receive the more you open up that funnel to source and you pray or you meditate or you write or you sit in silence or take a walk in nature, it’s an abundance.

Listen. I have been practicing holistic Reiki energy healing holistic practices since the age of 22 when I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. And I’ll never forget being at Harpo, in a meeting saying that I think we should all meditate. And people looked at me like, “We don’t even have time to pee, and you want to meditate?” I was like and I felt so stupid. I felt embarrassed. And five or six years later, five years later, I don’t know, Oprah gave us all the gift of transcendental meditation. She brought people in, we were trained. And we had two times during the day where we could go and meditate.

And I have meditated ever since and it’s probably been 10 years now. And when you meditate, you can’t turn that faucet off. It’s an abundance of creativity, of love, of just source is just pouring things into your life that you can’t stop. And that’s pretty cool.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

There’s a quote I just put out not too long ago, it’s called, “Listen and silent, have the same words.” Right? So, if you’re silent in meditation and you listen, they have the same words. Boom. Yeah, it’s coming to you. It goes to right what you said, Sally Lou.

 

Sally Lou:

It does. Yes, yes.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sally Lou:

Yeah, it’s literally true. It just it’s like-

 

Alicia:

Yes, it is.

 

Sally Lou:

You want more, you want more? Just sit in silence and listen and it comes to you.

 

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on Soul of a Leader podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at www.soulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.