Eileen:
Hello and welcome to Soul of A Leader Podcast, where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. On today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with Doug Glanville to discuss “Shortcuts Lead to Long Cuts.

Alicia:
Welcome to Soul of A Leader Podcast. On today’s episode Doug Glanville, a former major league baseball player with the Chicago Cubs. I must say that first, he also plays on the Philadelphia Phillies and Texas Rangers. Also, he’s a former board member for Athletes Against Drugs, and he is a proud father of four kids, Doug? Is it four?

Doug:
That’s good, four.

Alicia:
Four, I got it right. Welcome to Soul of A Leader Podcast, Doug.

Eileen:
Welcome.

Doug:
Yeah, it’s great to be on with the good doctors here. And Dr. Straughter Alicia, we connected Athletes Against Drugs many moons ago in Chicago and that experience really stayed with me. So I love to connect the dots to what I gained from that experience to what we’re about to talk about today.

Alicia:
Absolutely, and I tell you every time I think about you I think about the first board meeting where I met you, along with other board members, and it was Tobert, rest his soul, I love him, miss him, me and [inaudible 00:01:36]. The whole board meeting was quiet, Doug gave his whole background and spill. And I still remember the moment we was like, it was so refreshing and we were lost for words. We was so pleased to have you on that board, I would never ever forget you.

Eileen:
Well, thank you, Doug. And I know Alicia did a short bio intro, is there anything else you’d like to add that is special to your heart, or leading with your soul, that we may have missed?

Doug:
Well, I’ll tell you, I mean, very fortunate that I wear a lot of hats. And one thing that I picked up the last few years was being a professor at a university. So I teach a course called Sports in Society at University of Connecticut, and it’s been extremely rewarding because I get to engage the sort of younger generation. I’m the old guy now and we have a lot of fun, but also just a lot of understanding around how sports impact society and really how it’s led in so many ways, in so much social change.
And so that’s been great because it gives a lot of purpose behind talking about baseball and fun things, but also seeing how much it supports our world in terms of inspiring people to get together. Inspiring people to push past their limits, and really aspirationally where we’re trying to go as a country, as a world, to unify around this concept of team. So I’ve loved that and, of course, parenting, you mentioned it really well, my wife and I married 15 years and four kids, we’re very fortunate, everybody’s healthy. So that’s been our heart and soul for sure, but I try to wear a lot of hats. I do podcast, I write, I enjoy it, love sports media. So I feel like I’m fortunate to be in the right place.

Eileen:
Well, thank you so much. I mean, I’m more interested in hearing Dr. Alicia and I both have taught at DePaul university and Alicia’s taught at other colleges. And what I really picked from what you said was how sports and being a team is so influential in the world, and the discipline and the values that come from that. Can you share with us, as you teach and in your own life experience, how that team dynamics from many, many years, because we know if you’re a professional athlete and you started very young, and how that is so influential in who you are?

Doug:
Yeah, well there’s a throughline there and I was born and raised in Teaneck New Jersey, and Teaneck voluntarily desegregated in the early ’60s. And so when I came along in 1970 I was in a town that was very committed to an inclusive society, and through that lens was this sense of sports and community and the lessons from that really helped us bond even more. So I think about my summer league teams, I think about teammates that are from all walks of life, going out there trying to figure out how to become singular around a goal.
And that lesson stuck with me. And one aspect, for example, is you think about the black community, for example, and policing. Well, I was introduced to law enforcement through baseball because my volunteer coaches in the summer leagues, they were officers by day, lead detectives, in fact, many of my teammates went into law enforcement. And so I started to see sport not just because something I love to do, but a unifier. And not only were we concerned about, “Hey, how do we do this together to this goal, no matter where we’re from?” But we also were in an environment that reinforced the power of equity, the importance of equity, because you don’t have any fidelity, any integrity around your sport if you don’t have rules that are fairly distributed, fairly enforced. You see this sort of perspective around how these rules that govern are supposed to be shared equally and applied equally.

Alicia:
So one of the things I like hearing about is that you’re a professor now. And so, as Dr. Eileen mentioned, we’ve been teaching for a long time. To me it’s the most rewarding thing that we can do at this point of our careers, is to be in a university level teaching, inspiring those young minds. But the other point I want to bring out, almost every athlete we had on the podcast has said the same thing about business and sports, how there is a soul connection to that. And I really agree too, because I do sports, like I work out or I was a cheerleader and a captain of the cheerleading team, did a lot of what track and it is very true. There is a connection.
And oftentimes when you remove those activities from our young people at an early age, or if you don’t offer that, they miss out on understanding that the same skills you need to be on that team, is what you’re going to need in work. And so talk a little more about how you begin to set a process in place when you go in the classroom, or if you’re talking to your kids about the connection or the analogy of how business and how sport is connected.

Doug:
Well, it’s an important aspect of teaching, as you know, because there are, in these universities, certainly looking for that next field. What’s their professional life going to look like? And so it’s important to translate those lessons and see the connections between the content of your course, in my case sport in society, and “the real world”. And so business has so much of a team component to it and a sense of even professional major league baseball is a business also. And when you’re at that level and you’re thinking about not only “Yes, winning team,” but you’re also like, “All right, what’s my longevity going to be? I have to negotiate a new contract. I have an agent endorsement deal, buying houses,” whatever it is.
So, there’s such a connection between that. So with the students we always talk about this team sensibility that transcends being an environment as directly connected to team-like sports, it’s beyond that. And whether you’re in politics or leadership, or in churches, or wherever you’re in an environment where you’re responsible for community, or committed to a community, then those lessons of teams absolutely apply.

Eileen:
And, Doug, I have a question regarding professional sports, many people see the athletes, know the level that has to get there. How do you teach the, or share, emotional connection which you just shared and how it goes out into the team, and the physical? Because some people don’t understand that there’s a physical aspect to reaching that level, and a mental aspect, and an emotional intelligence that goes with that. And many people who go into the office, like I go in the office, you know I go there, but I’m not being measured physically I’m being measured on my output. And athletes are at a different level because they’re doing physical and mental. How do you share that with your students?

Doug:
Often through storytelling. Really just almost the case study of watching, not only going through your own experience and reaching a certain level, but also others. And maybe the empathy and the way you connect with people tells often a story about what it may take. And some of that is, there’s no one aspect of what defines success or “reaching to the next level”. And I know, in my career, physically I had to be healthy, for sure. And I trained and I worked out, I tried to eat healthier as I got older and understood it more. But I also knew that I needed a support system and confidence, and a belief, and all these things that came together.
So the mental, I’m the son of a psychiatrist so I certainly had a great appreciation of your mind and your emotional connection to what allows you to thrive. One example I underscore all the time is, I was a first round draft pick by the Cubs in ’91 and I came up and I did okay in the minor leagues, didn’t do anything really exceptional. And it wasn’t until I played in the Arizona Fall League one fall, which is sort of in the off season while you continue your “education in baseball”, but then I went to Puerto Rico.
And when I went to Puerto Rico that really changed everything for me, because I was validated on the field and off the field. I had a community of people that really embraced me as a son, and I had such a connection, I don’t know if it was maybe my dad being Caribbean and I felt this sort of family, but I locked in there. And then, so when I felt that validation off the field and really 24 hours a day, I was a better performer, I was better in my game. And that was the first real clear evidence of how important it was to not just be a great athlete, because you could be a great athlete, you could buy your way to be a great athlete, to some degree, if you already have these minimum skills to be a major league player.
And then what do you do? You take PEDs, steroids, because that’s when you’re only taking care of the physical. And so when you sacrifice everything for that one aspect you will make those kinds of choices, you will take shortcuts, you will sort of put “all your eggs in that basket”. And then when the world of reality comes down on you saying, “You can physically no longer to do this.” Now you’re limited because you haven’t seen yourself excel beyond this one dimension, and that’s the risk of getting into that box. So completeness is a universal lesson, not just in sport but within the rest of life and how important it is to be well-rounded and versatile in your thinking and approach to being this “great athlete” in this case, or through whatever it is you do.

Alicia:
Oftentimes young people want to get in sports and they want to take shortcuts. So I like how you touched on that because there’s no shortcut to it there is a process. But thinking about a process, what are some values that counter correlate about how you’re teaching this particular course? Was there some top values that go into play, that can be used both in sport and in business? And so what are maybe your top five?

Doug:
Well, first I’ll quote from Trinidad, I always mentioned my dad, shortcuts lead to long cuts, that’s what he used to say.

Alicia:
Love it.

Eileen:
Oh, that is good. That’s a good one.

Doug:
Yeah, [crosstalk 00:12:33] help, yeah.

Alicia:
Yes, long cuts.

Doug:
But one of the first things I do in the course isn’t even related to the content, it’s about the environment we’re trying to create. And the environment is around, first of all, we’re talking about sports and justice often, or society. So we’re looking at social change through sports, so it can be a very difficult subject. Sexism, racism, we’re getting into everything, homophobia. I mean, we touch on a lot of the challenges and ills, really, in some degree of our society, around people.
So I try to emphasize the importance of listening to each other, listening and hearing everybody, because we’re going to give opinions, we’re going to talk. The bandwidth to learn, make mistakes, make decisions and choices that maybe we want to take back, but I want to give the freedom to be able to talk, because we’re all learning. And I try to see it as a learning environment, because if you don’t have the environment to learn and step on a couple of landmines and come back and say, “Okay, wait a minute that didn’t come off right.” Then where are we going to get better? How do we get better? We have to get that feedback. And the classroom has that opportunity to engage in these level.
So I always start at that point to emphasize what kind of environment, what type of team we’re trying to be here. A lot of my students are laughing at me on this, but I’ll start the announcement and we’ll say, “Team,” I don’t really say students, or I just always talk to them as teammates. And so setting that tone is important. So when we go through the work we challenge each other, including myself, and I’ll ask prompts that really can push the buttons a little bit, and we’ll engage on these levels. So learning is such an important part of growth, it’s such an important part, an integral part really, of anything you’re trying to do.
And when you talk about business, when you’re talking about, I mean, growth is such a central word to business because you’re trying to grow as a business, but you’re also trying to scale it in a way that’s suitable to where you are, and suitable to the timing. And that’s a tough equation to balance all the time, and I believe that classroom skillset that certainly I try to emphasize and I think of the environment, gives yourself a sense of testing things. You have to test it, and just like you model in business, “Oh, let me see if this works. Okay, here’s the feedback, let me make adjustments.” We have to give each other more room to do that as people too. And I think that allows you to be more successful and be introspective about it, where you still have a sensitivity to your colleagues, your common ground. That’s extremely important.

Eileen:
Well, and I really liked the fact that you’re saying the classroom is a lab where you could get, I call feedback as a gift, because it takes courage for the person to say it and it takes courage for the person to accept the feedback. And there’s another saying I just shared is, silent and listen have the same letters. And if you are a really focused, conscious listener, you are really being in the moment with the person, and understanding them and making that connection. And today there’s so much noise at times, listening and being really focused on hearing someone’s story or giving them a chance to grow in front of you by being authentic, makes all the difference.
And part of our Soul Of A Leader is being spiritual, authentic, and servant. So tell us how you, in your life or your teaching, show your authenticity every day or when you teach, or as you lead.

Doug:
My mom’s side of the family also was the spiritual center. My grandmother who is Baptist started growing up in the South, and my parents engaged in the Presbyterian church when I was growing up. And I learned, I went through confirmation and I remember learning that this is part of this journey also, this is the walk that is important to carry this center that you’re not thinking it’s all about you, for example. There’s something larger at play here. So a lot of the examples came through some of the challenges of growing up in a community that was diverse, and we’re trying to forge a path together where much of the rest of society was still thinking of this segregated world.
In fact, it’s still to this day, so many communities don’t have exposure to each other. And that we were kind of blazing this trail, that taught me a lot about engagement, it taught me a lot about the power of listening to other groups of people and hearing their pain, and seeing this common story on how to connect to each other as people. And so from there those lessons just became reinforced, so when I faced injustices or stories, racism, different things, I always kept that in mind that had so many examples of people that wanted to see a just outcome, no matter what they look like. I had teammates, I had people battling for these, so that was confronted with many things that I decided to lead in a way by taking it on and not just letting it go.
And so, for example, I was shoveling my driveway in Hartford Connecticut, and an officer from another town came over and without introduction or anything just said, “So you’re trying to make money shoveling people’s driveway around here?” Now he was looking for somebody and I supposedly fit the description, but that was an eye opening moment because now I’m in my own driveway getting questioned by law enforcement. What do you do with that? But that turned into a two year exchange, I wrote an article about it, engaged with police, and I ended up serving on a Connecticut police council. But the outcome and the process by which we reached this outcome, which ultimately led to a state law, was actually as valuable as the outcome. Because the process of engaging people along the [inaudible 00:18:46] and I saw different leaders, different points of view, and really trying to lead this charge to say, “This is unacceptable, but we can have an outcome that we can all invest in to have a better community.” That was eye-opening.
And I think that those lesson stuck with me. So I kind of lost that here back in the day to say, “All right, I’m not going to stay anything.” I say a lot and I’ll write about it, and I do not stick to sports at all. And because these things are too consequential and sports offers too much as a metaphor or direct example, aspirationally, a better place we can get to.

Alicia:
I just have one question behind that. What did the officer do when he found out that you were Doug Glanville? I just want to know.

Doug:
Oh, he didn’t know in the moment and I appreciate that, treat me the same, regardless but-

Alicia:
I know.

Doug:
… later once the-

Alicia:
You’re a black man, let’s just be clear. We already know where that was going. I just want to know when he found out you play for the Phillies, I mean.

Doug:
Yeah, its was-

Alicia:
The Texas Rangers.

Doug:
The big thing that happened is I wrote an article for the Atlantic and it was called, it was basically like shoveling while black. I was racially profiled in my own driveway, was the title. But it led to a lot of dialogue, it was very fair but it was a story. I just told the story as a father, as a parent, as a husband just trying to shovel his own property. And I think that resonated. So the outcome was tremendous, it really went well.

Alicia:
Oh, it had to be.

Doug:
And, once again, think about how this circles back to my experience with law enforcement growing up was positive, but they were my teammates, my volunteer coaches, I had something to tap because of that exposure early on, to then reference and be able to see beyond the noise. To see that the outcome can be something harmonic, and that’s what I wish we had more of as a society. When you have that exposure you have context to say, “Wait a minute, it’s not just black and white, actually. There’s more nuance to this, and I can see a vision for a good outcome.” And so that was the standard by which I held the police, and so on, to reach… And I think it went exceptionally well. And now I’ve been working on policy for four years and we’ve got a lot done in Connecticut.

Alicia:
Oh, wow. Outstanding.

Eileen:
That is fantastic. I mean, it’s taking a situation and your voice, your experience and acting for the better. So, that’s wonderful. Thank you for sharing that story.

Alicia:
And not only that, your educational background because, again, I remember that day, you just explained to us at that board meeting your background in education. So you love to write and you can tell a story like no other person I’ve known, you can draw the reader in, the listener in. I mean, even it’s just listening to you now, and so as we begin to end, because we are having a great time with you, Doug, I just must say. And I really missed you, because you have a lot of great nuggets and wisdom to share with others. So tell us words of wisdom before we end our episode for tonight.

Doug:
Well, I absolutely, for start, have been a joy to reconnect and thank you for having me. I still reference back to the lessons I’ve learned from sport, I kind of go back to my course in general, but something that’s followed me throughout my life. And sport has been so central because I loved it as a kid, I play it and I just was fortunate to have a major league career to go with it, and professionally I’m able to stay in that realm. And so I’m in a comfort zone of something that I’ve loved since birth, but also become a professional in.
And I think keeping in the center, you have these principles that we’ve talked about. We’ve talked about listening, we’ve talked about leadership, we’ve talked about… And I think those are aspects of humanity we can celebrate and we can celebrate in ways by reaching sometimes across the aisle, but reaching in places and with people that maybe they don’t exactly exemplify how we perceive them, or whatever it may be, but actually listening. And when you listen and you engage on a certain level, you can see a teammate. And there’s something powerful when you connect because one becomes two, and as that plural expands to something larger, you can see team, you can see community, town, leaders, you see political change, you can see a whole ocean of things that are possible.
And so I’ve had a lot of patience through this. I watch Vikings, I haven’t seen it this past season, but I always loved this line because it’s okay to express certain emotions that may drive you being upset, for example, the police officer questioning. So a line that stuck to me is, never underestimate the fury of a patient man. And I always thought that was really… It stuck with me because, yes you’re hurt by racism, sex, and you’re hurt by this and it can anger you, but then there’s something about that focus that can come from it, in a certain way, that you can see an outcome and drive you to that.
And if you could do it with love and not animosity, and see that possibility and also see that there’s other counterexamples to how you perceive that one experience. For example, that officer wasn’t cool but I’ve had a lot of cool police offices in my life, for example. And so preventing that narrowness and making sure you’re challenging yourself to not get lazy in your own bias, because bias is human. And the thing, the analogy of the police council used to give us was, when you’re driving from point a to B, I’m in downtown, I’m in Chicago and I’m driving to Oak Park or something, and you’re just doing your thing. Okay, I know that if I turn the wheel to the left the car is going to go left, I have certain things that I can do now.
Now, I don’t have to relearn those skills every time I get in the car. I don’t have to be, “Oh, turn the key, press this button that’s going to go…” You don’t have to relearn those because that’s bias, because you’re anticipating what’s going to happen based on previous experience, evidence, science, all of these things that go into play. Those are our shortcuts. Those are our shortcuts in life. And so now where it leads to long cuts is with people, because it doesn’t work well with people because we’re overlaying all kinds of experiences, media, all things, perceptions, racism, all these things to misdirect us.
And we rely on those because it’s easy and it’s convenient. And often what’s easy and convenient with people gets you in trouble. So when you drive it’s one thing, you have that ability to say, “Okay, I’m opening up this can of peanut butter, I know if I turn it 360 degrees…” Those things you don’t have to think about, but we have to be more conscious of our fellow human, or humanity, and we have to be more aware of that in a way to give back it’s fullest and realize that we don’t hold all the answers as people, we have to be open. And I think that has led me through all very challenging moments, and even through times where I was able to write that video I sent to you about George Floyd, and all these things. Somehow seeing that somewhere in the end of this rainbow there’s a unity that can happen from this, and we need to keep our eyes on.

Alicia:
Yeah, and by the way, that was beautiful. Yeah, that piece that you did on George.

Doug:
Thank you.

Alicia:
That was a really [inaudible 00:26:47]. I seen it and send it to Stedman too, because I was like, “Oh wow.” Again, your ability to tell a story, it’s phenomenal in my opinion. So, and that’s me being authentic about it.

Eileen:
Well, thank you so much for those words of wisdom. I mean, the soul is about love, it’s about energy, it’s about being humankind. And we always say on all our shows, we’re all connected, and you just summed it up wonderfully, Doug. You really did, thank you.

Doug:
Thank you so much. And, as I mentioned with Athletes Against Drugs, I just remember so much, Stedman was such a tremendous influence in commanding the room that he does. Yeah, that was really such a great tutorial on leadership, and how much dealing with some of the challenges we face is really through leadership and people seeing themselves as leaders. And the attributes of what makes a leader, and so I thank you for that experience and this one today. To be able to engage, and looking forward to more. Keep in touch, keep better touch.

Alicia:
Tha is exactly what I was going to say, we are going to keep in touch.

Eileen:
Thank you for joining us on the Soul Of A Leader Podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul, and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at wwwsoulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.