Eileen:

Hello, and welcome to the Soul of a Leader podcast where we ignite soulful conversations with leaders. In today’s episode, Dr. Alicia and Dr. Eileen sit with Sheila Brown to discuss being humble and leading with your soul.

 

Alicia:

Welcome to Soul of a Leader. In today’s episode, we have Sheila Brown. She developed a desire for professional success early in life. She obtained her first job at age 15. Seven years later, Sheila began her career in broadcast television, where she was fortunate enough to work alongside the Chicago Bulls during their six championship season. At age 26, she became the youngest person appointed to the broadcast advisory board for a professional sporting league, the NBA.

 

Alicia:

One year later, Sheila founded Freedom Entertainment, Inc, where she continued to exceed expectations and follow an unwavering path to excellence for 20 years. Welcome to Soul of a Leader podcast, Sheila Brown, we’re excited to have you.

 

Sheila:

Hello ladies. Hello Dr. Alicia, Dr. Eileen.

 

Eileen:

We are so-

 

Sheila:

Wonderful being here with you.

 

Eileen:

Oh, we are so excited to be here. Thank you so much. Alicia did a wonderful job sharing your background and it’s quite impressive. I can’t wait to talk a little bit more about it.

 

Alicia:

I didn’t even put a dent in it. She is very impressive. We are looking forward to having a conversation with Sheila because she’s going to tell us more.

 

Sheila:

Let’s do this ladies.

 

Alicia:

Very impressed.

 

Eileen:

Well, and that’s why I want to know, did we miss anything that you really want to highlight before we go into talking to you about it?

 

Sheila:

Well, I mean, Dr. Alicia did a great job. That’s how I started my career. I started it in sports and you can imagine being a young lady in sports, working with professional athletes, and so forth. Those were some wonderful times.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

All through the championships, I was there flying around with the Bulls, which I always tell people was like traveling with the Beatles during those days. You can imagine then the ESPN series, The Last Dance, came on. I lived for that series. Every Sunday, don’t bother me for two hours. We’re going to watch it. It was a five-part series that chronicled the Bulls during that time. It was just so much fun to see all of our colleagues from back in the day and relive some of the games and so forth. It was really fun. I left my athletes.

 

Sheila:

I always tell people, I traded the jocks for the docs. I left my athletes and went over and started working with some of my healthcare clients. Still working in television production and doing fun projects with Lifetime Television and MSNBC, People Magazine, and so forth, but chronicling medical stories and just some fascinating medical stories and so forth that they followed and did stories behind. Even one on the Oprah Winfrey Show. Then I fast forward and I’ve done some of everything, doctors.

 

Sheila:

I have run Democratic national convention television coverage too. I was a road manager for music artists on the Motown label. I’ve just done a bit of everything, but I finally wanted to sit my behind in a chair for a period of time. So after 20 years of having Freedom Entertainment, I decided to take a job at Cinespace Chicago Film Studios here in Chicago, which is the second-largest TV and film studio in this country.

 

Alicia:

Really?

 

Sheila:

Only second [crosstalk 00:04:16]. Yes. Here in Chicago.

 

Eileen:

Wow. In Chicago.

 

Alicia:

I didn’t know that. In Chicago. Our hometown Chicago.

 

Sheila:

Our hometown. We are Hollywood Midwest and we are-

 

Alicia:

Thank you for telling the world because I didn’t know that.

 

Sheila:

Totally. People don’t know. We have a total in our arsenal of 35 to 36, depends on if the last one got finished, 36 stages, but we’re home to Chicago Fire, Chicago PD, Med, Empire was filmed there until it just wrapped, South Side, TheShy, Shameless, Fargo, HBO Lovecraft Country was there for their pilot. I mean, people don’t know that, but that’s right here in Chicago, and we-

 

Alicia:

No. Yes. I love that.

 

Sheila:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

That is fantastic. I mean, an industry, a huge industry-

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

… here that we have to … I’m so glad you shared it because that has to be advertised more.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

Well, people don’t know it but we are killing it in Chicago. We just got … AMC just came in with 61st Street, which is a new one produced by Michael B. Jordan and starring-

 

Alicia:

Absolutely.

 

Sheila:

… Courtney B. Vance. He’s going to play as Chicago district attorney, I believe, and so forth. There’s a lot of fun things going on here in Chicago. I tell you, so much fun.

 

Eileen:

Oh my gosh.

 

Eileen:

I mean, we could stay on this forever.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

I’m so interested in your background and what I see is this journey started with The Last Dance and then what leadership you must have just viewed, like an MBA in leadership or a Ph.D. in leadership just by being around people.

 

Sheila:

Yeah.

 

Eileen:

I would love for you to share about that and all your journeys and how you’ve picked up skills.

 

Sheila:

It’s interesting because when I came into television production, I was 19 when I first got my first opportunity to work in television. When I joined a television station, I was 21 years old and did not have a great deal of experience in television production, but I’ve always been that little leader in my family. I’m the one that’s like from seven years old, “We’re going to do this and we are going to try this.” That whole thing. I always was this natural-born leader and so I got into the television station and started working.

 

Sheila:

I went in as an assistant. The next year I was the production coordinator. Then coming in my third year, I was sitting outside in my little cubicle outside of the production manager’s office. I’m the production coordinator doing my thing. There was a mishap, let’s say, in one of our productions the night before, and they decided that they weren’t going to fire him, but they had to move him out of that position. Literally at lunchtime … And I’ve been in it two years now.

 

Sheila:

At lunchtime, the director opened the door and came in and said, “You know what? Sheila, come in. We need to move Greg out of this position, but we’re going to need a production manager. Do you think you can do it?” Do you know what I said? “Absolutely, of course, I can.” I literally go from the cubicle into the corner office, sat at my desk, shut the door, and went, “Okay girl, buckle up. You better get ready for this ride.”

 

Sheila:

I tell you, I was two years in, we’re covering world champion basketball players and so forth. We’re already in a business where men don’t quite appreciate women in the same way.

 

Alicia:

Absolutely.

 

Eileen:

Yeah.

 

Sheila:

As soon as I got that job, I would call say the Knicks producer and say, “Hey, you guys are coming into Chicago. What are you going to need technically and so forth?” They wouldn’t call me back. They would call my boss-

 

Alicia:

Interesting.

 

Sheila:

… and say, “Your secretary called me, let her know this.” He would say, “That’s not my secretary. She’s the production manager, so hold on, let me transfer you.” When you’re that young, you can’t grasp things. I appreciate John Tooley so much today because he could have just let them avoid … He said, “No, she’s a production manager. You’re going to respect her in that position.” He never let them avoid me. I knew just enough to be dangerous, ladies. I knew just enough to be dangerous.

 

Sheila:

When they would call me and they’d ask questions and they’d say, “I need this, this and this.” I know enough to say, “Well, if you need that, then you’re also going to need this, right?” Then they would go, “Well, yes.” Then that would make them think that I knew everything but then I would get off the phone and call one of my girlfriends who were in the business and say, “He said he needs this. What the heck is that?” And so forth. I got about six months of doing that and then I was off and running.

 

Alicia:

Absolutely.

 

Sheila:

It was a fun start but it took … You know what? I look back at it now. You asked about leadership. I look back at it now, Dr. Eileen, and I truly believe that I didn’t see it myself necessarily that it was defined as leadership at that moment, but I’ve always been a person that can pinch it. If you need something done, you call me, it’s going to get done. It’s going to get done right.

 

Sheila:

It’s going to get … So two years in and not having any experience in the business and looking back onto the reflection and saying that this man who had been in the business many a year could have opened the door to the newsroom and called anyone. He called me and said, “Do you want to try this? Do you think you can do it?” He knew that I could do it, but I was just like, “Okay. Next opportunity. We’re going to do it.”

 

Sheila:

I think my inner confidence and my leadership ability to drive people in the same direction and to get them there without beating them over the head and different things like that, we’re always … My style is collaborative to an extent. I always say I don’t like the decision by the committee because people do look crazy and then sometimes Dr. Alicia, you know what that means.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

I don’t like the decision by committee, because sometimes you don’t pull the committee together. I like to collaborate, but then I like to be able to say, “Thank you, thank you, and thank you. Here’s what we’re going to do.” You have to be a decision-maker in an environment like that, that goes, you have to have patience, you have to be supportive of other people’s thoughts, but you have to be able to make a decision or you’ll never get anywhere. I honed those skills as a young lady and by 27, I was like, “I’m having a midlife crisis. I’m going through … One of my girlfriends-

 

Alicia:

That at 27 Sheila.

 

Sheila:

At 27. One of my girlfriends goes, “You do everything early in life so it probably is a midlife crisis with you.” That’s when I started in my own company actually at 27 and I had it for 20 years. 20 years. I traveled around the country doing everything from events featuring Katy Perry and Maroon 5 or whoever the heck-

 

Alicia:

Oh, I love Maroon 5.

 

Sheila:

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love Maroon 5.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Me too. I mean, they have great songs.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Sheila:

Yes. Yes.

 

Alicia:

All my favorites.

 

Sheila:

All of that stuff has been so much fun, but I never really sat back and analyzed until these more recent years where people started to say, “What do you think it was? How do you think you got there? You were this young girl that grew up from a divorced family.” My mom was doing the best she could to raise her two young daughters and so forth. I grew up in the inner city on the West Side of Chicago. Next thing you know I’m flying on private planes with billionaires.

 

Sheila:

My mom’s like, “Wait, what? What happened? How did that happen?” I think it’s just that I was always authentic. I was honest and just worked hard. I always try and support other people. I’m that person that just wants everybody to do well because when one rises, we all rise is my thought.

 

Eileen:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. Absolutely.

 

Sheila:

When you do that and you stay true to people, you would be amazed at the doors that will open.

 

Eileen:

Well, and your emotional intelligence, that’s another thing. The EQ.

 

Sheila:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Knowing how to deal with the people, the resourcefulness and your end game and execution, willing to roll up your sleeve and do whatever it takes to get there.

 

Sheila:

Absolutely.

 

Eileen:

Thank you for sharing that.

 

Sheila:

You’re welcome. You’re welcome. That’s the thing. I now, in my position, focus my entire career, doctors, on giving people access, access to this industry. My sole job at the studio is to work and identify young adults who are ready to make a transition into this business, that can come in, learn, and do well. Some of that talk, Dr. Eileen, is exactly what I say to them. Don’t ever feel that you have made it. Don’t ever feel that, “Well, I did that last season. This season I want to do that.”

 

Sheila:

I said I’m a person that will jump in, roll up my sleeves, and say, “What do we need to get this job done?”

 

Alicia:

To get it done.

 

Sheila:

If I need to punch holes in paper, if I need to put binders together, whatever I need to do, I do. I look at nothing as above or below me. I’m a server. I’m a serving person. I’m here. I’m ready to do the work. Whatever is required of me, ever asked of me, I honestly try and do it. That’s what I try and tell them because I always say, there are so many people in this business.

 

Alicia:

Absolutely.

 

Sheila:

When I go out and I speak to youth in classes, everybody, I call this the microwave society, Dr. Alicia.

 

Alicia:

Oh yes.

 

Sheila:

I say all the kids want everything hot and fast.

 

Alicia:

Everything really quick, yes.

 

Sheila:

Everything really quick. They want to be on top. They want to be an overnight success and most of what they consider overnight success is 20 years working at it or 10 years working at it. We just all of a sudden saw this actor in some great movie and it’s like, “Where did he come from?” Well, he’s been on the scene for 10 years. It feels like an overnight success. They want that all the time. The youth will say to me, “Well, how do I stand out? How do I become famous? How do I stand out?”

 

Sheila:

I say, “You know how you stand out? Be a person of your word, be dependable, do what you say you’re going to do, work hard.” They look at me and say, “Wow, it sounds so boring.” I say, “But let me tell you the alternative. If I walk into a room and people are like, “Oh my God, Sheila’s here. Now, what are we going to get accomplished today? We’re going to have to micromanage her. We’re going to have to do this.” That’s not a good feeling.

 

Sheila:

Wouldn’t you much rather walk in the room and people say, “Oh yeah, we’re going to kill it today because we got this strong team or we got to go.” How do they know to say that? Because you’ve been dependable. They know you work hard. They know you’re going to do whatever it takes. You just have to do that and I promise you, everything else will come because you’ll stand out. You’ll stand out because so many people don’t do that. You think they do, but they don’t.

 

Alicia:

You’re absolutely correct. I add to this too. Our young generation, they come with this attitude, “Oh well, I can do this, or I don’t want to do that, or I could do it better.” You have to come with an attitude of learning. I like a lot of the great points you brought out. I always keep myself focused to say, “And I’m always learning.” Whether I know how to do it or not. It’s when you keep-

 

Sheila:

[crosstalk 00:16:38].

 

Alicia:

Exactly. When you keep your mind open to say that I’m always in a learning mode, you’re going to learn something regardless, whether small or big. One of the key points that I like, I mean, you said so many great things, but I hear the passion. You talked about, we call it SAS leadership. Your servant leadership, you talked a great deal about that and authentic. How does spiritual leadership in your own words, connect to the industry that you’re in or any industry as a leader?

 

Alicia:

Because we believe a part of us as leaders, I’m a leader, you’re a leader, Dr. Eileen. In our world, there is a time that as spiritual leaders, we have to have some point of faith in what we’re doing to even maintain, especially with the pandemic going on. How do you connect that to your leadership role?

 

Sheila:

My connection is humanity. I always go back to humanity. There are people, and especially in the entertainment business where we are, that everybody wants to be a big name or everybody wants this and that. I was talking to Dr. Alicia when I came on about how I just want to get back to the core of people. What’s your backstory? What is it that brings you here today? Why are you here? What are you seeking? Are you seeking productivity? Are you seeking fame? Are you seeking money? Fortune? What is it that you’re seeking?

 

Sheila:

I just leave my humanity on the table and all of my dealings, because sometimes people come in and they’re a big jerk and on the outside, you can say, “He’s an idiot or she’s an idiot, or that’s a jerk.” Inside I try and tell myself, keeping that humanity on the table, “Why are they acting like that today?” Do you know?

 

Eileen:

Yep. They’re usually hurting or something.

 

Sheila:

Yes, they’re hurting or something has happened, or God knows what news they got or what pressure they’re under and so forth. I try not to jump to the obvious. I try and just keep humanity in there with people. People come in and they want to talk about things and I listen to it, but I also listen with the second ear, I call it, which is, what is in that story? Do you know?

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

I used to tell people I wanted to be Ann Landers as a kid. Do you know what I didn’t like?

 

Alicia:

What?

 

Sheila:

[inaudible 00:19:11]. She couldn’t ask questions. She just got it on the paper and she had to answer to this paper. I want to know what is this really about? What are we really talking about? What’s it that’s in this story? I think when you listen with both ears and really try and understand people or what they’re getting at and ask that … Sometimes that one probe of the question will lead you down a road where you go, “Wow.” You start to understand that we are more alike-

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

… then we are different, but you have to find that connection with people.

 

Alicia:

Absolutely.

 

Sheila:

Sometimes there are people I really don’t think I want to connect with, let’s be honest. It’s like, “I have no time for this one right here. I just don’t have the energy for it.”

 

Alicia:

I agree with you.

 

Sheila:

Absolutely. I don’t have any energy for it. I don’t have time, but I try and tell myself, “That person could be hurting. That person, they think they’re never heard.” Or whatever the case may be. I try. I will go that extra step and try and make it. If they’re a jerk at step two, it’s time to move on. Somebody else’s. I’m going to need to send them to you guys. Do you know what I mean? You two doctors can get at [crosstalk 00:20:29]. Try and get that one more step than the average person.

 

Eileen:

We’ll do some soul coaching on there.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. We cut them down at like three, two. You’re at two. Yeah. We have to deal with a lot of people, but I like that because in a leadership role, oftentimes we find ourselves digging deep in people trying to find out like, “What’s behind all of this?” Sometimes it can be so draining to do that so I agree with you.

 

Sheila:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Then you’ll be like, “No. I’m going to get rid of that person.”

 

Sheila:

Absolutely. We have to also be in tune with our own feelings. It took me a long time to realize that no is a complete sentence. It took me a long time because we honestly feel like, “No, I can’t do it.” Especially me. I was like, “Well, how am I going to tell them? What am I going to say is the reason why I can’t do it?” I don’t owe you an explanation as to why I can’t do it.

 

Alicia:

Good.

 

Sheila:

I just, “I would love to help you but I can’t this time. I would love to attend, but I’m not available this time.” If I’m at home reading a book and that’s what my date is for the night. That’s just something that I have prioritized as something. I think women, especially, we take all of that in. My husband tells me all the time, oh my God. He says I cry at the little dog show commercials on TV, and I do. I am very emotional-

 

Alicia:

I do too, sometimes.

 

Sheila:

Absolutely. My mom and my husband, they’ll say like, “Oh, don’t tell Sheila this story.” Because I’m like, “Oh my God, what’s happening?” I don’t know and so my husband almost hates that I want to be that person for people because he says I bring it home and then it drains me. It does because there’s only so much you can do when you are trying to be there for everyone else because some people don’t balance that. They just find you as a repository. I can come. I can leave this here.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

Then I can walk away. Now, they’re feeling good and I’m pissed off for them. What does that help? Right?

 

Eileen:

Well, and I mean, I wrote an article for the PurposeFairy and she was one of our guests too. It says, “My …” It’s like saying no to others is saying yes to yourself, right?

 

Sheila:

Absolutely.

 

Eileen:

We each wake up with this much energy a day and we have to figure out where we’re going to put it and also putting the oxygen mask on you first. When you serve and you take care of yourself first, you’re doing the best for others. So-

 

Sheila:

Absolutely. We have to keep that in mind.

 

Eileen:

We do. We do have to keep that in mind.

 

Sheila:

Absolutely. I don’t want to make it seem as though people are wanting … Some people do, but I don’t want to make it seem like everybody is wanting to take. Sometimes people just need someone to be there to listen.

 

Alicia:

Absolutely.

 

Sheila:

And so forth.

 

Alicia:

They need an ear.

 

Sheila:

I try to be that, but I do try and just … I do, now especially, I’ve been in entertainment for 30 years and it can be draining. I sit back to say … I mean, even when I first started working down at the studio and I have a friend who’s been in entertainment, Abe Thompson. I remember sharing this story with him. I said, “Here I am, I’m leaving out.” I’m so used to working 24 hours a day for people and I’m leaving at five o’clock and I’m looking around and feeling almost embarrassed like I’m sneaking out or something.

 

Sheila:

Now I walk down the hallways, “Goodnight everybody. Goodnight. Goodnight.” I’m thinking, “You know what? I’m not saying I paid my dues, but I’m saying enough of that working 15, 16, 17 hours a day. I deserve to go in and get out and try and do my best within the hours that I’m there and go home and have some balance.” Do you know? So.

 

Alicia:

How do you challenge others to be their best in those roles?

 

Sheila:

I’d say by asking them to go beyond the obvious. We all show up and people believe that “Oh, this is my perception” I always tell people, perception is a reality so manage it because perception beats you there. People already have a perception of who you are going to be when you come into the room or when you’re a leader and so forth. I like to shock people. People say, “Oh, you seem really serious or anything.” Then I start with a joke or I come in laughing and they’re like, “Whoa, we didn’t expect that of her.” I do that to people as well.

 

Sheila:

I try and bring them to a different subject where they go, “Wait.” Quite often, when you talk to people about something that is a human connection, whether it’s a story that’s in the news, not politics, Lord no. No politics and no religion. If it’s a story that’s of the heart or something that you can connect with them on, then that usually brings them out as well. It challenges them to be the best so that they don’t come in and feel like they’ve got to hit the same markers every time. It allows them to stand out and shine.

 

Alicia:

I think that’s important to allow people to stand out and shine because oftentimes, and you said it a little earlier, people, they chase … What I say, they chase fame and they really don’t know that to get to that point, as you said earlier, that person been doing this for 10 or 15 or 20 years. They didn’t just arrive on the scene. When you’re challenging people to be their best at something they are doing, that means they have put in the time and the effort to spend to be created to be something number one in their particular industry. You have to empower those individuals.

 

Sheila:

You do. You have to empower them and you have to make sure that they understand that it is a craft and you’re saying you want to … It’s no different than a surgeon, learning to be a fantastic surgeon. People think acting, singing … It’s that whole reality TV kind of messed up entertainment a bit because people think, “Oh, I could just be the loud one or I can be the outrageous one and I can get famous.” Well, I define famous, a person who works their tail off to become a household name and then have to hide behind sunglasses because people don’t understand what fame is.

 

Sheila:

When you’re Oprah Winfrey and you’re walking down the street, you don’t get to go to a store and get a carton of milk just because you want one. When you looked at The Last Dance and Michael Jordan, all the other players could go shopping. They could go to restaurants.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

They could do … People say, “Hey, Luc Longley or hey John Paxson or whatever.” It’s great. Michael comes out, he’d shut the town down so he has to stay holed up in his room, watching television. He can’t go anywhere.

 

Alicia:

Or playing the piano. I saw it in Last Dance.

 

Eileen:

Yeah.

 

Sheila:

Yes. Be careful what you ask for.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

Be careful. Be specific about what you ask for but be careful what you ask for as well, because I think sometimes it looks easy being Dr. Alicia or Dr. Eileen, or even Sheila Brown, but you don’t know what it took for us to get here.

 

Alicia:

Absolutely. There you go.

 

Sheila:

You see these great parts but you don’t know the challenges we’ve had either unless you sit down and talk to us in detail. Do you know?

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

We have. That’s why we’re such good friends.

 

Sheila:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Because we may have grown up in different cities, but very similar.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

We are more alike than different.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

Trust me. Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

I try and get people to understand that.

 

Alicia:

Yeah. To your point about being in the industry and I was listening to you, but I was having flashbacks, because I can remember many times traveling with Stedman Graham, and I can tell you all the time people thought I was his secretary.

 

Sheila:

Oh, absolutely.

 

Alicia:

Every time.

 

Sheila:

Absolutely.

 

Alicia:

I don’t really care who it was. I was dressed and I always kept myself calm and cool. He was too. He was like, “You’re not my secretary.” They see a female and they assume that.

 

Sheila:

They assume you have that role. That’s what they did with John. “Oh, your secretary called me.” Now, I’ve already identified myself as, “Hi.” Say I’m the production manager. It can’t be. Your secretary called me. No. Just, that’s how we get treated. You have to be careful. I listened to Mellody Hobson from Ariel Capital Management recently. She talks about arriving for a board meeting once. It was at a big company like Starbucks or something. I can’t say it was Starbucks. I don’t recall the name of the company.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

She arrived for a board meeting she was the first one there.

 

Alicia:

Yes. I remember that story.

 

Sheila:

The person that came in asked her for a cup of coffee because they thought that she was the person in there to serve them while they attend this board meeting. She was in fact there for the board meeting.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

Do you know? Women get-

 

Alicia:

I remember that story.

 

Sheila:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Sheila:

Women get treated like that quite often. There are many rooms that I walk in and I’m the only female around the table so I tell people, “There’s nothing I have not heard.”

 

Alicia:

Exactly.

 

Sheila:

“There is nothing I have not seen. My ears are not virgin ears because I was with men and athletes for many years.”

 

Eileen:

Backroom talk.

 

Alicia:

Oh my gosh, were athletes, I know they were saying everything and you just-

 

Sheila:

Oh, you know it. You know it.

 

Alicia:

Okay. Oh, yes. I already know. Yes.

 

Sheila:

Crazy times, but you stay true to yourself.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

You get through it. We had some more fun days than anyone, so.

 

Eileen:

Absolutely. Makes you stronger.

 

Sheila:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

It does.

 

Eileen:

It really does. With that, Sheila, we are coming to the end of our time together and we always ask, if you could leave some words of wisdom for our listeners and for Dr. Alicia and me to move forward with.

 

Sheila:

Whoa, words of wisdom. I have learned in my life to … I went to an aspirational speaking conference and Les Brown was speaking at this conference. He started to tell the story of how we keep ourselves back. We are our biggest obstacle to any success in life. He said he always tells people to leap and the net will appear. Leap and the net will appear. Sometimes you feel like you want to make that move or you want to start that company, or you want to take that new job, or you want to go to school for your doctorate or whatever the case may be, but you’re frightened.

 

Sheila:

He said leap and the net will appear. Guess what? You jump out the window. You’re halfway down, the net’s there. You might get mangled on some of the trips down or whatever but you’re not going to get killed. To what we just said, that mangling is what makes you strong. Next time you’re like, “Oh, I know not to turn on that side.”

 

Alicia:

Absolutely.

 

Sheila:

[crosstalk 00:32:21] so you live. I live by that. I think those are great words of wisdom. Then one of the screensavers I have across my screen says, “If you’re not living on the edge, you’re taking up too much space.” That’s what I feel about life. You always have to be doing something to challenge yourself. I’m afraid of heights so that ledge scares me every time. I stand there on that ledge and I know that net will be there and I know that going back in the room is not an option because I need to be on to the next thing, onto the big thing.

 

Sheila:

Don’t talk ourselves out of things that we know we can do, but they’re scary. It is in that fear that you grow.

 

Eileen:

Wow. Thank you so much. I mean, it just reminds me that everybody thinks life is supposed to be so smooth and we all have scars, but they’re there for a reason.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

If I undressed right now, ladies and you see all these scars marks, I’ve got kick marks over here, I got stumps over there and scratches on here, but that’s what makes us in life.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Sheila:

It builds characters. I used to always say, “I don’t want to be friends with anyone who hasn’t gone through anything in life.”

 

Alicia:

Oh my gosh. Yes.

 

Eileen:

Right.

 

Sheila:

What do you have to draw upon?

 

Alicia:

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Sheila:

Do you know?

 

Alicia:

I agree with you 100%. I mean, talking to you I just have so many flashbacks, but I tell you, every time I went through something, I kid you not, I thought it was just the worst thing ever in my life.

 

Sheila:

Oh, it feels that kind of thing. Yeah.

 

Alicia:

I’m like, “Oh God, I’m …” Then you come out and be like, “Oh, I went through all of that to get to this point. Okay. What’s next?” Because-

 

Sheila:

Absolutely.

 

Alicia:

… again, you-

 

Sheila:

You stop and-

 

Alicia:

… you got to channel that fear now and say, “Okay.” You got to bring it on. Because when you look back and say, “Well, I got through that.” While you were in it, you thought, “Oh my God, the world about to end on me.”

 

Sheila:

[crosstalk 00:34:26] make it. Absolutely.

 

Alicia:

You get through, you be like … It’s just amazing. You are absolutely right about challenging yourself to push beyond that fear point.

 

Sheila:

Don’t let those struggles deter you, because often everything in life teaches us a lesson. Oftentimes, through the struggle, you might not learn what to do next, but you sure as heck will learn what not to do next, right?

 

Eileen:

That’s good and sometimes-

 

Sheila:

It’s a lesson.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Sometimes that’s where the magic begins.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

The magic begins when you’re outside that safety zone.

 

Alicia:

Yes. Yes. You’re absolutely correct.

 

Eileen:

I mean, Sheila, when you said that you took that leap, that person moved, you jumped in. Wow. There was a lot of fear. There was everything. You did it, but the magic began right there in your career. The magic began.

 

Sheila:

Right-

 

Alicia:

Yes. Right.

 

Sheila:

… there.

 

Alicia:

That was that pivotal point for you.

 

Sheila:

Yeah.

 

Alicia:

Yeah.

 

Sheila:

Then four years later I was challenged with the station manager thinking I was getting too big for my britches because the NBA had appointed me to this advisory board and so forth. Next time I’ll have to tell you the story of how in 48 hours I went from a meeting in his office to starting Freedom Entertainment never having wanted a business before at all. Literally walking away, two more championships after that. My family was freaking out, “What do you mean you’re leaving in the middle of this?”

 

Sheila:

I left. 48 hours later, I was in there saying, “I’m starting my own business.” That was a huge leap and it was successful for 20 years.

 

Eileen:

Well, that’s your next episode with us.

 

Alicia:

Yes.

 

Eileen:

Season two.

 

Alicia:

Season two.

 

Eileen:

Season two you come on.

 

Alicia:

Absolutely, Sheila. To all our listeners you will hear this story.

 

Sheila:

Yes. You know in my business, we always got to give a teaser.

 

Alicia:

That’s right.

 

Eileen:

Season two.

 

Alicia:

Absolutely.

 

Eileen:

Season two starts in January.

 

Sheila:

There you go.

 

Alicia:

That’s right. Be on the lookout for Sheila Brown. Yeah.

 

Eileen:

Thank you for joining us on the Soul of a Leader podcast. We are igniting a new way of leading with your soul and interviewing ordinary people with extraordinary impact. Thank you for listening to the stories of our leaders who will help and guide you on your leadership journey. For more information on our podcast, please visit our website at wwwsoulofaleader.com. Thank you for listening.